Interesting project on Ebay. 7AC Champ in process of restoration for sale.
Item # 180168298969. Not sure what it will go for. It's on my watch list. I'd be interested if I didn't already have one 'inprogress' project already.
Located in Charleston, Ill.
Mike Berg
EBAY 7AC Project
EBAY 7AC Project
"If God had intended man to fly He would have given us more money"
I see the Champ project on EBAY is now up to $10,000 with four days to go. Still probably not a bad price all things considered. However, he has a "buy it now price" of $16,500. That might be a little steep, although I've seen nice rebuilt Champs selling in the mid to high 20's (usually with C85 and electrical, though) so who is to say when all is said and done.
Interesting to see what the final price will be.
Mike Berg
Interesting to see what the final price will be.
Mike Berg
"If God had intended man to fly He would have given us more money"
project
What is the deal on the one in AZ? I am looking for any 7 model. No engine is ok. Even a J-5 if anyone knows of one. I have been watching the prices drop on flying ones and they have been around 20k or below. It is a buyers market. The 15k one on epay was a little high for what work was still needed to be done. And compared to one flying with prices dropping. Not to mention fuel prices rising.
Agree with you that the price on the one on Ebay was a bit high but it was a descent project with no welding required.
The one in Prescott is a very nice 7AC. It was taken through cover then unfortunately allowed to sit out in the open for a while. Rain got into the baggage compartment and it then dripped in the bottom of the rear of the fuselage. There are several places where there is surface rust on the tubing. As far as I know its surfact rust ONLY.
Problem is that the fabric needs to come off so that the frame can be cleaned, then primered and then new fabric going back on. As well some of the wood was ruined and needs to be replaced.
Wings have been totally built and are ready to hang on the plane, paint and all. The problem with them is that when they were built the gent building them did not put the bushings in the spar for the attach points. Evidently this is the way they were built for years and is still legal if you stay below 85 hp on the engine. We all feel that this needs to be corrected and to do so would require removing the fabric in these areas, drilling the holes larger to accept the bushings (which are with the project) and installing them. We believe that this can be done without redoing all the fabric, saving a lot of work and money.
Engines. The aircraft comes with enough parts to build a A-85, C-85 or 0-200 engine. Descent amount of spares including a new windshield and lots of extras.
Its a very nice airplane and I almost bought it. Problem was that I was led to believe that we could hang the wings, install the giblets and an engine and fly, then we did a detailed inspection and found the surface rust and wood damage, so its going to have to come down to bare metal on the fuselage, so its a project.
This airplane has been in Arizona almost all of its life and been owned by the same people now since the 1980's. It needs to find a good home and if it was closer to the middle part of the country would have been snapped up long ago.
Joe
The one in Prescott is a very nice 7AC. It was taken through cover then unfortunately allowed to sit out in the open for a while. Rain got into the baggage compartment and it then dripped in the bottom of the rear of the fuselage. There are several places where there is surface rust on the tubing. As far as I know its surfact rust ONLY.
Problem is that the fabric needs to come off so that the frame can be cleaned, then primered and then new fabric going back on. As well some of the wood was ruined and needs to be replaced.
Wings have been totally built and are ready to hang on the plane, paint and all. The problem with them is that when they were built the gent building them did not put the bushings in the spar for the attach points. Evidently this is the way they were built for years and is still legal if you stay below 85 hp on the engine. We all feel that this needs to be corrected and to do so would require removing the fabric in these areas, drilling the holes larger to accept the bushings (which are with the project) and installing them. We believe that this can be done without redoing all the fabric, saving a lot of work and money.
Engines. The aircraft comes with enough parts to build a A-85, C-85 or 0-200 engine. Descent amount of spares including a new windshield and lots of extras.
Its a very nice airplane and I almost bought it. Problem was that I was led to believe that we could hang the wings, install the giblets and an engine and fly, then we did a detailed inspection and found the surface rust and wood damage, so its going to have to come down to bare metal on the fuselage, so its a project.
This airplane has been in Arizona almost all of its life and been owned by the same people now since the 1980's. It needs to find a good home and if it was closer to the middle part of the country would have been snapped up long ago.
Joe
Kind of like my L16 project. It was an 'estate sale' and when if first looked at it, I thought I pretty much knew what it would need to finish the job......until I trucked it home, that is. Once I really dug into it, I found a bent tube above the right landing gear (common problem/don't know how I missed that one 
), a horizontal crack in the spar (very hard to see) and I decided that if I was going to do the job right, I'd need to weld in both lower longerons. Of course, according to plan 
, none of this will cost much other than the spar replacement (yeah, right!!). Having been through this a couple of times, I should have known better, but......... 
. On the other hand, I look at it as a rewarding and relaxing hobby and I could be spending it on drink and wild women 
.
Regarding the price of fuel and dropping aircraft prices, not sure that holds exactly true. A few years ago ( say 10) you could buy a pretty nice Champ or Chief for $12-15,000. Now you have to look pretty hard to find one for less than $20,000 if it's in any shape at all. I can run my A65 Champ around for $12-15 per hour on auto fuel. When I had my Cherokee 140 it would probably run closer to $35-40 per hour for fuel. Plus, radio and transponder maintenance, exhaust system, etc. and a stupid AD or service letter on either the engine or airframe twice a year or so it seemed. I did love that little Cherokee and owned it for over 25 years, but I was always fixing something expensive.
Besides I don't go that far anymore so I guess my needs have changed.
Mike Berg
), a horizontal crack in the spar (very hard to see) and I decided that if I was going to do the job right, I'd need to weld in both lower longerons. Of course, according to plan , none of this will cost much other than the spar replacement (yeah, right!!). Having been through this a couple of times, I should have known better, but......... . On the other hand, I look at it as a rewarding and relaxing hobby and I could be spending it on drink and wild women .Regarding the price of fuel and dropping aircraft prices, not sure that holds exactly true. A few years ago ( say 10) you could buy a pretty nice Champ or Chief for $12-15,000. Now you have to look pretty hard to find one for less than $20,000 if it's in any shape at all. I can run my A65 Champ around for $12-15 per hour on auto fuel. When I had my Cherokee 140 it would probably run closer to $35-40 per hour for fuel. Plus, radio and transponder maintenance, exhaust system, etc. and a stupid AD or service letter on either the engine or airframe twice a year or so it seemed. I did love that little Cherokee and owned it for over 25 years, but I was always fixing something expensive.
Besides I don't go that far anymore so I guess my needs have changed.
Mike Berg
"If God had intended man to fly He would have given us more money"
-
Carl Prather
- Posts: 234
- Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 11:21
- Contact:
I emailed the fellow in Prescott, AZ and here's his response:
Current asking price is $12,000. Includes yellow tagged O-200 crank, case, cam, connecting rods, accessory case, lifter bodies, new bearings. Also includes C-85 case, A-65 case, C-85 crank (yellow tagged) plus many more items. I will be inventorying everything this weekend. Does not include complete engine.
None the findings that Joe mentions was mentioned.
Generally, it seems a good flying 7AC, 7BCM or 7DC Champ can be bought for $18K to $25K. I believe it will take another $10 to $12K to finish the Prescott Champ so it would make more sense from my perspective to just to buy a flier.
Presuming the eBay Champ was a well done, partially completed project, I think the $15k it fetched could result in a flier at a price equal to one that flies. For the buyer's sake, I hope that work completed actually is as nice as I would like to believe.
Current asking price is $12,000. Includes yellow tagged O-200 crank, case, cam, connecting rods, accessory case, lifter bodies, new bearings. Also includes C-85 case, A-65 case, C-85 crank (yellow tagged) plus many more items. I will be inventorying everything this weekend. Does not include complete engine.
None the findings that Joe mentions was mentioned.
Generally, it seems a good flying 7AC, 7BCM or 7DC Champ can be bought for $18K to $25K. I believe it will take another $10 to $12K to finish the Prescott Champ so it would make more sense from my perspective to just to buy a flier.
Presuming the eBay Champ was a well done, partially completed project, I think the $15k it fetched could result in a flier at a price equal to one that flies. For the buyer's sake, I hope that work completed actually is as nice as I would like to believe.
Carl
I agree on the price of the project vs. buy a flyer. I am in no hurry and have been watching the market for a few years and right now it is following the way things are.
Mike I have to stay on my way of seeing the prices dropping. I recently sold my big fuel burners. One burned about 10/11 gph the other 12/13. The price was low to move them. I have one that I will keep and it is a 14/16 gph but I do not need to fly it everyday. Yes the 4.5 gph airknockers are coming down in price. A lot of pilots that jump into lsa have had a big whopper of a plane. They will go ahead and buy a new plane for 100k and have a brand new airplane. Some do not want a 60 year old one even if it is a complete rebuild.Then the one that are not ls legal are even lower. I do not need a lsa plane and will just find a old simple basic no electric one in time. yes about four to five years ago you could find a Champ,t-craft. chief c-150 for under 20k Then the market with the building boom took off and so did the prices. They are back down to being real and I hate to say it will be lower with the way things look for cost of living and realestate crash we are seeing. Plus there is a generation of pilots that are reaching the time they are not flying as much anymore and are selling out. The real bummer is that the cost it takes to get started in flying these days. The number of young pilots is pretty low.
I agree on the price of the project vs. buy a flyer. I am in no hurry and have been watching the market for a few years and right now it is following the way things are.
Mike I have to stay on my way of seeing the prices dropping. I recently sold my big fuel burners. One burned about 10/11 gph the other 12/13. The price was low to move them. I have one that I will keep and it is a 14/16 gph but I do not need to fly it everyday. Yes the 4.5 gph airknockers are coming down in price. A lot of pilots that jump into lsa have had a big whopper of a plane. They will go ahead and buy a new plane for 100k and have a brand new airplane. Some do not want a 60 year old one even if it is a complete rebuild.Then the one that are not ls legal are even lower. I do not need a lsa plane and will just find a old simple basic no electric one in time. yes about four to five years ago you could find a Champ,t-craft. chief c-150 for under 20k Then the market with the building boom took off and so did the prices. They are back down to being real and I hate to say it will be lower with the way things look for cost of living and realestate crash we are seeing. Plus there is a generation of pilots that are reaching the time they are not flying as much anymore and are selling out. The real bummer is that the cost it takes to get started in flying these days. The number of young pilots is pretty low.
Agree on the cost of getting into flying. When I got my private license back in the late 70's, I think it cost me around $2500 and it took around 55 hours with my night ratings and required instrument time. I can't imagine what it must cost now for a full fledged private license considering the rental and instructor. I suppose there are those out there who will spring for a $100,000 plane, but I'm not sure how good of an 'investment' it would be over the long run. Even with my house paid for, kids through college (and gainfully employed, I might add) along with no debt, there's no way I can justify spending that much money for what is basically an expensive toy. But then I'm from a different age and was raised on a farm by parents who had lived through the depression and never wanted to be in debt again. Some of that probably rubbed off on me along with the neccesity of repairing our own equipment.
Anyway, I'm perfectly happy with my little Champ, although I do miss the Cherokee when it's windy and bumpy or I want to fly any distance.
Mike Berg
Anyway, I'm perfectly happy with my little Champ, although I do miss the Cherokee when it's windy and bumpy or I want to fly any distance.
Mike Berg
"If God had intended man to fly He would have given us more money"