engine upgrades

gregory smiths · Post by **gregory smiths** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 21:36

My son and I have a really nice little 7CCM Champ and we are considering upgrading to a lycoming O-290-D (125hp).

Does anyone have any thoughts positive or negative about doing this or any firsthand knowledge about the performance of such an upgrade?

If we decide to do this we will be selling the engine and prop on our airplane, a C-90 1400 smoh that is running great right now, what is it worth?

Post by **joea** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 00:50

First off, welcome to the bulletin board!

Second, I have seen photos of their Champ and its absolutely beautiful.

As for the questions posed above I have no idea as I am a Chief guy and do not have that much experience on Champs, but sure that several people will chime in with their experiences.

Regarding the C-90 and prop, it should sell easily as thats a very good engine.

Joe

WWhunter · Post by **WWhunter** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 07:41

Greg,

Welcome! From all the guys I have spoken to about engines on a Champ they all think the C-90 is the best. I have a O-235 in my 7AC done with a Buzz Wagner STC. It is a good performer.

The only bad thing I have heard about the O-290 is the cost of overhaul/parts. Apparantly they are getting harder to find or not being supported.

My AI just told me he had recently rebuilt one and it was very expensive compared to the other Lycs.

Keith

gregory smiths · Post by **gregory smiths** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 09:40

Thanks, if we don't sell the airplane we will look seriously at upgrading the powerplant down the road. It has good compressions and oil consumption is steady at 1 quart per 4-5 hours so we are in no hurry, but we would like more horsepower. Is there an STC for converting to the O-290 and will it present any weight and balance issues? Do you think the performance improvements will be significant? Thanks for the input.
Greg

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:09

As Keith mentioned above, Buzz Wagner holds the STC for the 0290 conversion. My understanding is that works real well especially for short fields or on floats. Someone else whose is more familiar with the installation can chime in but I don't believe it's a 'drop in' operation.

Weight is always a factor. What is your max and useful?

Mike

Mnflyer · Post by **Mnflyer** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 13:18

Hi the Buz Wagner STC is for the lycoming 235 c-1,c1a, c1b,c1c,c2a,c2b,c2c, h2c, k2a ,k2b, l2a or l2c and the Cont. 0-200-a , -b, or-c. The 0-290 is not listed. this is of course just my opinion but I'd stay with thw C-90 lighter great running engine.
I'm not sure if there is a STC for the installation of the 0-290.

gregory smiths · Post by **gregory smiths** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 14:39

Thanks for the input guys.

Greg

Post by **joea** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 15:09

Greg,

If you are looking for a bit more power, there is an STC from "Dons Dream Machines" in Georgia that you might look into.

They use the bits and pieces from an O-200 along with a C-85 and from what is posted on other threads here it dyno's our around 110 hp. The good part of this is that its legally an 85 hp engine so that helps with other aspects of the airplane.

Here are a few threads that mention Dons STC. There are others that you can find using the search button above by the headers.

http://joea.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=694
http://joea.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=877
http://joea.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2461

Joe

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 17:59

I stand corrected on the 0290. As MN indicates above, Buzz holds the STC for the 0235 and 0200 series. Sorry about that. For some reason I thought he had the 0290 also (until I checked his catalog)

Mike

Nathan K. Hammond · Post by **Nathan K. Hammond** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 13:24

O-290 cylinders are expencive! Put a set on a Clipper about 2 years ago and they were $1800 a piece; O-200 cylinders were $700 at the time.

A hopped up C-90 ( 125-130hp, legally done of corse

) would probably be cheaper in the long run.

nkh

mike newall · Post by **mike newall** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 16:35

I'm sorry - having had 2 Champs and 2 Citabria's - if you want the sweetest Champ around, put in a C-85 or O-200.

Any more, you struggle with weight and c of g.

Remember, Mr Lasher said - the best Champ was a light A-65 one

If you think an O-290 is going to make things better, faster etc etc, you are probably in for a big disappointment IMHO.

The difference between the Champ and the Citabria is great. I have been up and down twice so know all about it. The Citabria is the perfect compromise - you have heritage, you have practicality, you have handling. The Champ - well - it's timeless but slightly less practical than a Citabria.

Darn it, I've said it now - I guess I have to go over to the Bellanca forum................. !

gusc · Post by **gusc** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 19:06

Mike,

I doubt if any of us 7AC owners think of them as practical!! The whole object is fun and they are perfect for that.

mike newall · Post by **mike newall** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 18:33

Correct - that is why I felt awkward posting the last thought.

I have been torn between lovers for 10 years now.........

Champ

Citabria

Decathlon

Champ

Oh, bugger, I'll build an RV7 and restore a Champ

Then fly both

Post by **joea** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 06:25

Mike,

Let me make it easy for you.

Chief

Champ

Sedan

Get one of each and be happy!

Joe

National Aeronca Association Bulletin Board

engine upgrades

engine upgrades

Lycoming STC in a Champ