Insurance Survey

Jerry Eichenberger · Post by **Jerry Eichenberger** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 17:39

For instruction and rental, dual or solo, we pay about $2500. That's for $100,000 per seat, $1,000,000 total liability, and $25,000 hull.

I'm reluctant to advertise which company underwrites our FBO, as this coverage is likely not available to strangers to the company. The agent is Avinsure Agency of Powell, Ohio. (www.avinsureagency.com)

We have to either train the student, or give a thorough checkout. Anyone whom I or our chief instructor approves can solo it.

When we get our new L-16 clone, the premium will rise, because of a hefty increase in the hull coverage.

Jody Wittmeyer · Post by **Jody Wittmeyer** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:50

Just got my insurance quote. 500,000, 100,000 and 15,000 hull. AIG 856.00, US Specialty 565.00. Cheaper quote does NOT cover sport pilots. Must have medical and biennial. Open pilot hours higher than AIG.

Jerry Eichenberger · Post by **Jerry Eichenberger** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 13:05

Jody -

$15,000 for your hull coverage is woefully inadequate. If you have any kind of accident at all, you're asking for the airplane to be totalled.

Here's how it works:

After an accident, the insurance comapny will, of course, get estimates to repair it. Let's say you have a typical ground loop - gear damage and a wing on the ground, together with a prop strike.

So, wing needs to be opened up and repaired, then recovered and painted. Gear needs to be fixed, and hope the fuselage isn't twisted. Engine needs to be torn down for inspection, and the prop, of course, needs to be replaced. If no internal engine damage is found, you've just spent at least $10,000, likely more.

Now, the company will look at the slavage value of the wreckage, as is and unrepaired. Let's say that comes out at about $8,000.

Now, what's their decisison? They can pay the $10,000 or more to fix it. Or, they can pay you the $15,000 for which you've insured it (actually less your deductible), and then sell the wreckage to a salvager for $8,000, which means they're out of pocket only $7,000.

Hence, you have a constructive total loss, you get your $15,000 less deductible, and are out of luck because you can't replace the airplane for what you got.

Therefore, we all need to insure the hulls for the full market value of our airplanes.

Post by **joea** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 13:56

Jerry,

Agree with what you are saying and I feel that the value of my Chief has risen in the last 2-3 years.

I paid $15.500 for mine three years ago and thats what is on the policy right now. I believe that its worth at least $17k now. Its a 1947 11BC model with the 85 hp engine and in good condition.

Ideas? I just emailed my insurance agent (same as Jody's) and asking her about increasing my value on the insurance policy.

Thx,

Joe A

Jerry Eichenberger · Post by **Jerry Eichenberger** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 14:18

Joe -

Sorry, but I'm really not up on the values of Chiefs. If it were a 7BCM, I'd say the value is more in the $30,000 range, assuming it's in nice condition.

I also assume what you paid was before the big jump in values because of the sport pilot rule (11BC is LSA eligible, isn't it?) since you said you got it 3 years ago.

Just check Trade A Plane and Barnstormers. I do think $15,500 is quite low.

Jerry Eichenberger · Post by **Jerry Eichenberger** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 14:22

Joe -

Just glanced at Trade A Plane on-line version. Three Chiefs advertised, two 11ACs in the $27,000 range, and an 11CC for $24,000 range.

Looks like you better raise your hull insurance significantly.

Post by **joea** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 14:32

Jerry,

Thanks and was thinking $20k or so but from what you found may have to take it even a bit higher. The 11CC is the Chief that is not SP legal, so you can see the difference easily.

Appreciate the help!

Joe

Jerry Eichenberger · Post by **Jerry Eichenberger** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 14:46

Joe -

With your 85 hp engine, if 11 ACs are bringing north of $25K, wouldn't the real value of yours be nearer $30,000?

The other things beyond an accident that can create a constructive total loss when the airplane is insured for too little are hail and other weather damage.

If the airplane sits out in a hail storm and gets ripped, the cost for a total recover, new cowl, and paint gets very high at the retail shop rates that the insurance company would pay, in addition to the costs of tearing the airplane apart and trucking it someplace to a tube and fabric shop to get repaired.

Then if it gets upset in a windstorm, same thing applies.

In these instances, the salvage value is also very high, because the engine is undamaged, and a good, low time engine alone can be worth $8,000 or so, in addition to whatever the insurer could get for the airframe.

When you couple high costs of repair together with a high salvage value, yoiu've got the recipe for a probable constructive total loss.

Jody Wittmeyer · Post by **Jody Wittmeyer** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 17:44

Thanks, Jerry. Champ is now on 22 year fabric and needs pulled down, but I am just finishing off my 6000 piece pile of parts and not in a hurry to do another one. Knowing this, I would fix anything myself, if the champ ever wrecked. Right now, even thought about dropping the hull, until I rebuild her. The chief, once flying, will be insured for no less than 30,000.

Post by **joea** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:19

Jerry,

Just heard from my (and Jody's) insurance agent. Old valuation on my Chief was $18k and just upped it to $22k for a yearly increase of $49.00.

Well worth the comfort level for me for the price of a couple of meals.

Joe A

Jody Wittmeyer · Post by **Jody Wittmeyer** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 03:42

Mike, going through Facer with the same limits you listed, but inflight and full coverage, AIG was @ $824, private or sport pilot, 20,000 hull. Last year Facer provided me with US Specialties, private pilot, $543.
Facer insurance looks for the best policy that applies to your flying, they are not just locked into AIG. I have been very happy with Facer and AIG, but they would not insure both airplanes, for some reason. They would cover off airport landings. US Specialties don't. (read grass strips)

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 16:54

For others information I got my new insurance quote today from my broker with AIG: Age 68, 935 total hours, 246 hours in type (Aeronca), clean record. $500,000/100,000, 1,000. Hangered, private turf runway. They quoted: $892 full coverage , $20,000 value, $514 liability and hull, ground only and $316 liability only.

I think this is slightly less than I paid past year.

Mike Berg

Nathan K. Hammond · Post by **Nathan K. Hammond** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 21:09

Thats goodto see Mike. I had heard others (non-aeronca) barking about higher quotes this year and wondered if it was going to trickle down to us.

Last year my quote was around, $850/full and $308/liability only.

nkh

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 21:55

Looking at my last years quote, I see it was $534 for ground and liability based on $18,000 (rather than $20,000) and the same coverage limits. Liability only was $338 so it actually is a bit cheaper this year

. Guess I didn't ask for full coverage before.

Bad thing is that according to my log book I only flew 35 hours last year

. Winter takes a good chunk out of the flying even if I have skis.

Mike Berg

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 21:37

For anyone who might be interested. I'm up for medical this year and toying with the idea of going 'Sport Pilot" rather than private. No particular reason other than my medical insurance will cover a regular exam but not a biennual to keep my medical certificate for the private. I get a regular physical every year anyway and am in good health other than a few aches and pains and no medications required. I was concerned about what would happen to my aircraft insurance if I changed to sport pilot considering the fact I just turned 69 (maybe a 'red flag'

). So.....when I was at Oshkosh I ran down AIG at their booth and asked the queston.....would this change anything? According to the agent I talked to it was no problem and coverage would continue as normal.

Basically, I'm no longer interested in flying at night or anything more powerful than a Champ, etc. so it just makes sense to me. Plus, if some problem did pop up on a required medical exam I won't become a pen pal with the feds in Oklahoma. It can be taken care of on a personal basis.

Mike Berg