TSA damages several airplanes while "inspecting" t

Post by **joea** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 09:29

Everyone might keep their eyes open while any federal govt inspector is looking at their airplane. The below shows just what can happen when the TSA gets involved. From Avweb.

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Pilots Furious Over TSA-Damaged Airplanes

Fourteen American Eagle aircraft were damaged overnight on Monday at Chicago's O'Hare International Airport when a TSA inspector used instrument probes as handholds to test the security of the aircraft from tampering, ABCNews reported.

Over 40 flights were delayed on Tuesday while mechanics checked the airplanes. "Our inspector was following routine procedure for securing the aircraft that were on the tarmac," TSA official Elio Montenegro told ABC.

However, "There is a sign that clearly says don't step," Mary Frances Fagan, a spokeswoman for American Airlines, which operates American Eagle, told the Chicago Tribune.

One pilot who posted on an Internet forum wrote, "The brilliant [TSA] employees used an instrument located just below the cockpit window that is critical to the operation of the onboard computers. They decided this instrument, the TAT probe, would be adequate to use as a ladder."

TSA workers will be retrained to ensure that the problem doesn't happen again, Montenegro said.

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/a ... tml#198632

Paul Agaliotis · Post by **Paul Agaliotis** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:58

If I did that at work to the TAT probe, AOA vane or P/S probes I would have been fired. Most people don't know that the primary flight instrumentation is computer generated with information provided by these probes.
The TSA was looking for locked doors. If they are successful in bridging the gap to GA, when they find your Champ door unlocked you will be in violation and subject to any, and all penalties.
Paul

SFC Hiatt · Post by **SFC Hiatt** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 22:17

Not only is my Chief not locked, my hangar door is open most the time. Shhhh.....we are a growing forum and the FAA might be listening.

Post by **joea** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 00:38

Chris,

Have you ever seen a door lock on a Chief? I have not... its impossible to lock the airplane up!

Joe A

aeroncafan · Post by **aeroncafan** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 07:21

Yeah, and locking a fabric covered airplane would be like locking a rag-top convertable or a pop-up camper!

I always thought my pop-up's lock was funny; the vinyl "wall" around the door frame was just velcro'd around the door! And if you couldn't figure velcro out, pocket knife anyone?

Paul Agaliotis · Post by **Paul Agaliotis** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 07:47

I understand your positions, but these are mandates that the TSA will create. You will comply or be subject to the penalties. If that means adding a locking device you will add the device.
We added bullet proof cockpit doors,changed ramp operations and access requirements based on the TSA requirements. All of this is accomplished at a very high price. If this type of regulation is allowed to continue I feel that something more precious to Americans will be lost.
I hope the FAA does monitor this site (they do)! With any luck they will use their eyes to get a good look at the General Aviation situation, rather than seeing only the inside of their colon.
Paul

SFC Hiatt · Post by **SFC Hiatt** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 08:29

Terrorist around the world are dreaming about taking a Chief full of fuel and using it as a terror device. You could probably take out a whole tomato stand with a loaded Chief headed straight down.

flyingfool · Post by **flyingfool** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:38

EAA vintage aircraft magazine a while back had a fabricated lock for Aeronca's. This required zero alteration to the aircraft.

I'm not at home right now. But since I have a Chief on the way to me tomorrow, I have those articles next to my lay-Z-Boy.

I can get you the months of the Vintage magazine and/or scan the articles and send them to you. Or post on this site if I can figure out how to add an attachement.

Essentially it is a bent peice of steel that goes over the door jamb, and a peice or metal strap that craddles the door handle and then a simple pad lock hasp connects the two.

I plan on making two for my Chief at some point. I don't have a metal brake or welder, but I know some people who do!

N3840E · Post by **N3840E** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:51

All I have to add to this thread is my disdain for the TSA. I get tired of them "just doing their job". After 28 years in the 121 flying business post 911 I became part of the Taliban to them. There is not enough room on this board to relate all the stupid stories I could tell, most of my co workers are in the same boat. Notice the article didn't mention anything about accountability for their mistake.

aeroncafan · Post by **aeroncafan** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 18:16

FlyChamps · Post by **FlyChamps** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 19:03

flyingfool wrote:Essentially it is a bent peice of steel that goes over the door jamb, and a peice or metal strap that craddles the door handle and then a simple pad lock hasp connects the two.

Yep - but my Champ has a sliding left window - how do you lock that? Also, to meet Canadian certification requirements the left window of the Champ MUST be able to be pushed out as the emergency escape route if the door jams - how are you going to secure that?

Just how much damage is 13 gallons of gas going to cause? These requirements are the illogical rantings of idiots. Oh, excuse me, I've just insulted real idiots.

Post by **joea** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 20:59

N3840E wrote:All I have to add to this thread is my disdain for the TSA. I get tired of them "just doing their job". After 28 years in the 121 flying business post 911 I became part of the Taliban to them. There is not enough room on this board to relate all the stupid stories I could tell, most of my co workers are in the same boat. Notice the article didn't mention anything about accountability for their mistake.

Totally agree and we are on the same side, not against each other. Everytime I go through the search process and they start questioning me about why I have a pilots uniform in my bag I simply say "I was flying before you were born and had a military security clearance while you were nursing, so if you have a problem with my being a pilot I need to see your supervisor" and it usually ends.

I have stopped putting up with any of their crap anymore and just go to the supervisor.

shorty · Post by **shorty** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 20:55

FlyChamps wrote:
flyingfool wrote:Essentially it is a bent peice of steel that goes over the door jamb, and a peice or metal strap that craddles the door handle and then a simple pad lock hasp connects the two.
Yep - but my Champ has a sliding left window - how do you lock that? Also, to meet Canadian certification requirements the left window of the Champ MUST be able to be pushed out as the emergency escape route if the door jams - how are you going to secure that?

Just how much damage is 13 gallons of gas going to cause? These requirements are the illogical rantings of idiots. Oh, excuse me, I've just insulted real idiots.

With a stick? Laid in the track to prevent the window from sliding.

shorty · Post by **shorty** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 21:01

joea wrote:Chris,

Have you ever seen a door lock on a Chief? I have not... its impossible to lock the airplane up!

Joe A

NOT impossible, just take yer pocketknife and jab a hole in the fabric behind the door post, and another hole in the door at the post,
run a length of chain through both holes from the inside, and secure the loose ends on the outside with a padlock.

But then you'll probably tip off the would be thieves that they can gain access with a pocketknife.

Post by **joea** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 21:11

shorty wrote: With a stick? Laid in the track to prevent the window from sliding.

I use a length of aluminum tubing laid in the track to keep the window closed on the Sedan. After all its to keep honest people honest. Someone who really wants in will cut the fabric and be done with it in a minute...