DUAL HYDRAULIC BRAKES
DUAL HYDRAULIC BRAKES
Has anyone done a Chief conversion to dual toe brakes with hydraulic cylinders?
The below Chief has hyd toe brakes. If you send a check to the FAA in OKC they will send you a CD with the history on the airplane. This would include the 337 or STC that was used to put the brakes on the plane.
This airplane was on Ebay for sale a while back and did not sell, so I got his info off of the internet and talked with him. Nice gent and his A&P put the wheels/brakes after buying a kit from one of the usual suppliers.
Joe A
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Aeronca in El Paso with toe hyd brakes!
N9044E
Aircraft Serial Number : 11AC-675
Aircraft Manufacturer : AERONCA
Model : 11AC
Engine Manufacturer : CONT MOTOR
Model : A&C65 SERIES
Aircraft Year : 1946
Owner Name : GIBSON DONALD L
Owner Address : 214 MONTEGO BAY DR
EL PASO, TX, 79912-4412
This airplane was on Ebay for sale a while back and did not sell, so I got his info off of the internet and talked with him. Nice gent and his A&P put the wheels/brakes after buying a kit from one of the usual suppliers.
Joe A
~~~~
Aeronca in El Paso with toe hyd brakes!
N9044E
Aircraft Serial Number : 11AC-675
Aircraft Manufacturer : AERONCA
Model : 11AC
Engine Manufacturer : CONT MOTOR
Model : A&C65 SERIES
Aircraft Year : 1946
Owner Name : GIBSON DONALD L
Owner Address : 214 MONTEGO BAY DR
EL PASO, TX, 79912-4412
My cleveland DMB wheels look a little beat up but thankfully have no rim cracks.
I do wonder how long they will last and if I will eventually need to purchase
new wheels.
Any one know if replacement DMB wheel halves are still available?
As fas as hyd toe brakes when I looked into it I was told that the control yoke in a chief needed to be moved to make room for the master cylinders. If this is not the case I would also be interested in converting to hyd brakes.
I do wonder how long they will last and if I will eventually need to purchase
new wheels.
Any one know if replacement DMB wheel halves are still available?
As fas as hyd toe brakes when I looked into it I was told that the control yoke in a chief needed to be moved to make room for the master cylinders. If this is not the case I would also be interested in converting to hyd brakes.
Shep,
You see replacement Cleveland main wheels from time to time for sale but they are not cheap.
Regarding the toe brakes, the 11CC came out from the factory with toe brakes, and no changes other than the toe pedals and some misc hardware in the attachment method. No control column changes what so ever. They were an option on the later 11BC planes as well.
At one time Buzz Wagner had replacement toe brake pedals for sale. They were brand new castings, that is that they had no mounting holes and were pretty much raw castings. Someone good with tools can clean them up and drill them to mount in the airplane. Other option is to find them off of a wrecked 11CC, but it might be easier to just win the Lotto...
Joe A
You see replacement Cleveland main wheels from time to time for sale but they are not cheap.
Regarding the toe brakes, the 11CC came out from the factory with toe brakes, and no changes other than the toe pedals and some misc hardware in the attachment method. No control column changes what so ever. They were an option on the later 11BC planes as well.
At one time Buzz Wagner had replacement toe brake pedals for sale. They were brand new castings, that is that they had no mounting holes and were pretty much raw castings. Someone good with tools can clean them up and drill them to mount in the airplane. Other option is to find them off of a wrecked 11CC, but it might be easier to just win the Lotto...
Joe A
Shep,
As far as I know of, there is no major mods needed. From what I was told its a "bolt on" operation. Since it sounds like you already have the "toe style pedals" then one of the issues has already been taken care of.
As for the master cylinders, am simply not sure and it might require some modification (read welding tabs or mounts on the fuselage frame under the pedals) or might be a bolt on operation.
Joe A
As far as I know of, there is no major mods needed. From what I was told its a "bolt on" operation. Since it sounds like you already have the "toe style pedals" then one of the issues has already been taken care of.
As for the master cylinders, am simply not sure and it might require some modification (read welding tabs or mounts on the fuselage frame under the pedals) or might be a bolt on operation.
Joe A
I called Wag Aero and asked to speak to the Aeronca Expert. I was advised to review drawing 4-17-1624. If possible I would like to convert the 11CC to Cleveland Disks.
I tried the Aeronca.com website for the drawing and struck out.
Anyone suggest a source for the drawings?
Anyone converted an 11CC Chief to Cleveland Disks? I'm soon to have the fuselage soda blasted so now would be the time to weld master cylinder mount tabs.
I tried the Aeronca.com website for the drawing and struck out.
Anyone suggest a source for the drawings?
Anyone converted an 11CC Chief to Cleveland Disks? I'm soon to have the fuselage soda blasted so now would be the time to weld master cylinder mount tabs.
Shep,
The reason why you "struck out" on the drawing is that there is no factory drawing of that number that I know of. Who did you talk with? Was it Mike Utley? He is the "Aeronca expert" up there as far as I know and would be the man to talk with IMHO.
The factory drawings are numbered 1-111 or 1-1111. There are none that I know of in this format and certainly none with numbering 1-1-1111.
This could be a numbering method of a drawing from Cleveland, or ACA but its not from the Aeronca factory. As well have to say that Aeronca never produced Hyd brakes on the Chief that I know of. It was always cable which leads me to believe that the drawing you are looking for is not from Aeronca. Aeronca did make Sedans for many years with Hyd brakes and using the same parts in many cases between the Sedan and Chief.
I believe, and this is not gospel, that they Sedan and Chief share rudder and brake pedals. What you might do is to get ahold of Burl Rogers in Alaska and get a copy of the brake system on the Sedan. You could use this as a guide on how to install this on the Chief. You already have the same toe brake/rudder pedals now, so it would just be mounting the master cylinders and plumbing.
Also I would get a CD from the FAA about the Chief above which shows how they did this conversion and use their approved data to work from. Then have your IA take this to the local FSDO and ask them how they feel about it.
Joe A
The reason why you "struck out" on the drawing is that there is no factory drawing of that number that I know of. Who did you talk with? Was it Mike Utley? He is the "Aeronca expert" up there as far as I know and would be the man to talk with IMHO.
The factory drawings are numbered 1-111 or 1-1111. There are none that I know of in this format and certainly none with numbering 1-1-1111.
This could be a numbering method of a drawing from Cleveland, or ACA but its not from the Aeronca factory. As well have to say that Aeronca never produced Hyd brakes on the Chief that I know of. It was always cable which leads me to believe that the drawing you are looking for is not from Aeronca. Aeronca did make Sedans for many years with Hyd brakes and using the same parts in many cases between the Sedan and Chief.
I believe, and this is not gospel, that they Sedan and Chief share rudder and brake pedals. What you might do is to get ahold of Burl Rogers in Alaska and get a copy of the brake system on the Sedan. You could use this as a guide on how to install this on the Chief. You already have the same toe brake/rudder pedals now, so it would just be mounting the master cylinders and plumbing.
Also I would get a CD from the FAA about the Chief above which shows how they did this conversion and use their approved data to work from. Then have your IA take this to the local FSDO and ask them how they feel about it.
Joe A
Shep,
Here's the Champ, I suspect the brackets on a Chief would be similiar.
2 brackets, (4 welds total)
Jim
Here's the Champ, I suspect the brackets on a Chief would be similiar.
2 brackets, (4 welds total)
Jim
Last edited by jkvincent on Sat Oct 18, 2008 08:44, edited 1 time in total.
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MIKE UTLEY
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 17:17
- Contact:
toe brake installation
Hi Shep, I am sorry if I confused you on the toe brake installation drawing yesterday. The drawing part number is 4-1624. You can purchase the drawing from us for $35.00.The installation is approved for 7AC, 7BCM, 7CCM, 7DC, 7EC, 7FC, 7GC, 7GCA, 7GCB, 7GCBA AND 7GCBA by stc SA 507 CH. And PMA'd by the drawaing for 7ACA, 7ECA, 7GCAA, 7GCBA, 7HCAB, 8KCAB and 8GCBC. At the present time we only have thr drawing in paper format but we are trying to get the drawing cleaned up and transferred to disc/electronic format.
Please let me know if I can help with anything else. My contact info is as follows: Mike Utley
C/O Wag Aero
P. O. Box 181
Lyons, Wi 53148
Ph 1-800-558-6868 ext. 142
Fax 1- 262-763-7595
email mutley@wagaero.com
Thank You, Mike Utley
Please let me know if I can help with anything else. My contact info is as follows: Mike Utley
C/O Wag Aero
P. O. Box 181
Lyons, Wi 53148
Ph 1-800-558-6868 ext. 142
Fax 1- 262-763-7595
email mutley@wagaero.com
Thank You, Mike Utley
Thanks for all your replies. I do get overhelmed sometimes with big numbers 
It looks like it will take a 337 and the major issue will be how and where to anchor the bottom end of the master cylinder.
Since the 11CC already has toes pedals does anyone know if any model of the Champ series used the same toe pedals? Pictured below
It looks like it will take a 337 and the major issue will be how and where to anchor the bottom end of the master cylinder.
Since the 11CC already has toes pedals does anyone know if any model of the Champ series used the same toe pedals? Pictured below
juice brakes
I had a Stinson 108-3 with juice brakes that took the place of the cable
models and it was always a problem with a drop of brake fluid now and
then falling into the fusilage, floor boards, etc. couldnt be cured as the
vibration caused the O ring to leak a drop now and then no matter what.
larger O ring with sealer didnt cure it either. cable brakes work and its
a problem to install juice brakes with cost and problems. I just leave
well enough alone and use what I have. Just me of course, but messed
with the old Stinson for some time and all I did was bend my body under
the panel and get a stiff neck for my troubles, not to mention tight jaws.
If it works, dont mess with it is my idea. my shoe brakes work great
and I have some replacement shoes when the time comes and dont
have to bleed lines because there is some air getting in there and making
the brakes not work. Just my idea, dont mean its right. Lee B.
models and it was always a problem with a drop of brake fluid now and
then falling into the fusilage, floor boards, etc. couldnt be cured as the
vibration caused the O ring to leak a drop now and then no matter what.
larger O ring with sealer didnt cure it either. cable brakes work and its
a problem to install juice brakes with cost and problems. I just leave
well enough alone and use what I have. Just me of course, but messed
with the old Stinson for some time and all I did was bend my body under
the panel and get a stiff neck for my troubles, not to mention tight jaws.
If it works, dont mess with it is my idea. my shoe brakes work great
and I have some replacement shoes when the time comes and dont
have to bleed lines because there is some air getting in there and making
the brakes not work. Just my idea, dont mean its right. Lee B.
Lee 1948 Chief 4412E
4268
4268