Hello all, I just purchased a 65-TAL project in need of a lot of work. This is the first airplane I have ever owned, so I'm pretty excited.
This plane started out as a 65-TAF and was converted to a 65-TAL in 1943. In 1965 it had a Continental A-75 installed on it, but they only did a log book entry to install the engine. The paper work could be a bit of a mess to sort out, but I think I can get it all worked out.
The plane hasn't flown since the early 70's and the fuselage was kept outside. The wings, horizontal, and control surfaces have been kept inside so they are in pretty good shape. The fuselage has no fabric on it, surface rust on the tubes, all the wood is rotted away, and the windows are all busted. I have been trying to gather pictures of how others are put together, but havn't found many pictures. I really need pictures of the interior and I also need drawings for the plane.
Now a little about myself. I am an A&P mechanic with an IA rating and a low time private pilot. I do have experience working with fabric and old airplanes. I have worked on Stearmans, C-45's (Beech 18's), an AT-11, Champs, 170's, 140's/120's, a UC-78 Bobcat, and a PT-23. I have done fabric repairs, but have not done a restoration like this. I look forward to working on the plane and learning from this forum.
65-TAL project
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dcirefugee
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65-TAL project
-Clint
Clint,
First welcome on board.
Second where are you located? We have a few people with a LOT of pre-war Aeronca experience.
What parts are you looking for? The A-75 issue is not a big one and you might just let it appear to be a A-65 and leave the paperwork as is, running it at higher RPM when needed (for 75 hp) then throttling back for normal use like you would with a 65 hp engine.
Joe A
First welcome on board.
Second where are you located? We have a few people with a LOT of pre-war Aeronca experience.
What parts are you looking for? The A-75 issue is not a big one and you might just let it appear to be a A-65 and leave the paperwork as is, running it at higher RPM when needed (for 75 hp) then throttling back for normal use like you would with a 65 hp engine.
Joe A
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dcirefugee
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- Contact:
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dcirefugee
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I am located in Wichita Kansas. Right now I am not really looking for any parts, but I would just like to get a feel for what I might be missing and how the plane is put together. As far as the engine goes, I may not even use the A-75 that is on it now. I have been thinking about installing a C-85 on it, but that is going to be a ways down the road. I think the work will be fun, but paper work always gives me a headache. 
-Clint
Clint,
A C85 would be really nice, especially if it was a -12 version that could accept a starter.
Lots of aviation in Wichita, so that helps. I am not aware of any Aeronca people there right now.
There was a gent named Buzz Wagner, who passed away in the last 6 months. He had a STC to put larger engines on the pre-war Aeronca's, so you might want to get ahold of his son, who we understand is now running the operation.
Buzz Wagner
Box 3, 401 1st St. East
Clark, SD 57225
605/532-3862
fax 605/532-1305
Good you are an A&P, it helps! My A&P practical (almost 20 years ago, how time flies) was to restore a 11AC Chief and if it flew, my practical was passed.
Next, you need to go here: http://www.aeronca.com/dwgs/ this is Todd Trainors Aeronca blueprint site. Todd is a long time pre-war fan, and specializes in the "K" models. He is restoring old blueprints and has a very good collection of them.
If Todd does not have them online, please contact myself or any other National Aeronca Assoc board of directors member and we have some blueprints that Todd does not have.
Let us know how you can help. Glad to see another Aeronca being restored! Hope you can plan to attend the next NAA Aeronca Fly-in that is held at the Aeronca factory in Middletown Ohio. Its scheduled for early June 2010.
Joe A
A C85 would be really nice, especially if it was a -12 version that could accept a starter.
Lots of aviation in Wichita, so that helps. I am not aware of any Aeronca people there right now.
There was a gent named Buzz Wagner, who passed away in the last 6 months. He had a STC to put larger engines on the pre-war Aeronca's, so you might want to get ahold of his son, who we understand is now running the operation.
Buzz Wagner
Box 3, 401 1st St. East
Clark, SD 57225
605/532-3862
fax 605/532-1305
Good you are an A&P, it helps! My A&P practical (almost 20 years ago, how time flies) was to restore a 11AC Chief and if it flew, my practical was passed.
Next, you need to go here: http://www.aeronca.com/dwgs/ this is Todd Trainors Aeronca blueprint site. Todd is a long time pre-war fan, and specializes in the "K" models. He is restoring old blueprints and has a very good collection of them.
If Todd does not have them online, please contact myself or any other National Aeronca Assoc board of directors member and we have some blueprints that Todd does not have.
Let us know how you can help. Glad to see another Aeronca being restored! Hope you can plan to attend the next NAA Aeronca Fly-in that is held at the Aeronca factory in Middletown Ohio. Its scheduled for early June 2010.
Joe A
Hey Clint,
Man seeing a run down airplane next to a tractor makes my heart go pitter pat.
My wife's family lives in Wichita, if you don't mind I will look you up next time we visit. The restoration is going to be a great experience for you and my bet is by the time you are done, there will be lots of folks knocking on your door. Hopefully I will have some pictures with me of our 120 project that will be much further along than its current status.
Scott Johnson
Milan MI
Man seeing a run down airplane next to a tractor makes my heart go pitter pat.
My wife's family lives in Wichita, if you don't mind I will look you up next time we visit. The restoration is going to be a great experience for you and my bet is by the time you are done, there will be lots of folks knocking on your door. Hopefully I will have some pictures with me of our 120 project that will be much further along than its current status.
Scott Johnson
Milan MI
Scott,skot7ac wrote:Hey Clint,
Man seeing a run down airplane next to a tractor makes my heart go pitter pat.
My wife's family lives in Wichita, if you don't mind I will look you up next time we visit. The restoration is going to be a great experience for you and my bet is by the time you are done, there will be lots of folks knocking on your door. Hopefully I will have some pictures with me of our 120 project that will be much further along than its current status.
Scott Johnson
Milan MI
I thought the same way as well, and saw the "Rotella" can and knew it was a farm. Sure hope he has a grass strip!
Joe
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dcirefugee
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Sorry to disappoint guys, but those are pictures from when I went to pick up the airplane. I live on the edge of the city limits and only have 1.5 acres, so no way I can put in a grass strip. Right now the plane is in a large shed in my back yard. If you could see how it fits in there, you would swear the shed was built with this plane in mind. 
Joe, I was aware of an STC for the C-85, but wasn't sure on who to contact. I will look into that website and see what I can find there. Thanks for the info. I would love to make the Aeronca Fly-in, but we will have to see what my budget and work schedule will let get done in that amount of time.
Scott, feel free to contact me when you are going to be in town.
Joe, I was aware of an STC for the C-85, but wasn't sure on who to contact. I will look into that website and see what I can find there. Thanks for the info. I would love to make the Aeronca Fly-in, but we will have to see what my budget and work schedule will let get done in that amount of time.
Scott, feel free to contact me when you are going to be in town.
-Clint
Clint,
Not sure that Buzz has a website, he was an old codger (I am a semi-old codger so can say that!) and best to call him.
Todd Trainor is at: www.aeronca.com Good guy, excellent website.
Joe
Not sure that Buzz has a website, he was an old codger (I am a semi-old codger so can say that!) and best to call him.
Todd Trainor is at: www.aeronca.com Good guy, excellent website.
Joe
Maybe this will help somewhat
http://aeronca65tac.net/
I got a set of rear windows left over from my restoration,also some wood of the upper fuselage that I dont need anymore.
Mike
http://aeronca65tac.net/
I got a set of rear windows left over from my restoration,also some wood of the upper fuselage that I dont need anymore.
Mike
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dcirefugee
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Mike, the pictures on that site are very helpful. It really helps me see where the wood pieces go in relation to the tubes. I would be really interested in the wood and windows, if you are willing to let them go. Let me know what you would have for them.
I've started taking apart the fuselage, and things are looking better than I first thought. I stuck a borescope in the vertical tubes to see how bad the rust was, and it appears to be fairly light rust inside. I also scraped the 4 or 5 coats of primer off various tubes and they appear to be pretty clean underneath the primer. I'm sure I will find out much more when I bead blast the frame.
I've started taking apart the fuselage, and things are looking better than I first thought. I stuck a borescope in the vertical tubes to see how bad the rust was, and it appears to be fairly light rust inside. I also scraped the 4 or 5 coats of primer off various tubes and they appear to be pretty clean underneath the primer. I'm sure I will find out much more when I bead blast the frame.
-Clint
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Paul Agaliotis
- Posts: 2589
- Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 18:49
- Location: San Martin, California
- Contact:
Clint,
I finished a TAC a few years ago and there are a few challenges to overcome. You are lucky to have a complete exhaust system. I looked for a long time to locate a L/H head pipe and was unable. The cylinder shrouds (eyebrows) are specific as they are part of the carb/cabin heat system. The last item on the engine is the cowl attach located just below the prop flange. It may need modification to fit the C85 if you go that route.
I used a replacement cowl from Buzz. All of the cowling I have would require a lot of work. They are three piece and compound curves. The fit was good are cut for the stock exhaust.
I would not install the C85. I don't think the results would be worth the effort. One thing I would do is install a wing tank. The TAC uses a 10 gal overhead tank and a two gallon header. Total fuel is a bit shy out here on the west coast, as some of the legs can be over two hours in calm winds. If you decide to install the C85 I would consider wing tanks a must. There is no STC for wing tanks in the metal rib wings.
The last item would be the wing struts. They are tougher to find than a Carny with teeth. If you don't have them start looking now.
Let me know if I can be of help. It's good to see more interest in the pre- war models.
Paul
I finished a TAC a few years ago and there are a few challenges to overcome. You are lucky to have a complete exhaust system. I looked for a long time to locate a L/H head pipe and was unable. The cylinder shrouds (eyebrows) are specific as they are part of the carb/cabin heat system. The last item on the engine is the cowl attach located just below the prop flange. It may need modification to fit the C85 if you go that route.
I used a replacement cowl from Buzz. All of the cowling I have would require a lot of work. They are three piece and compound curves. The fit was good are cut for the stock exhaust.
I would not install the C85. I don't think the results would be worth the effort. One thing I would do is install a wing tank. The TAC uses a 10 gal overhead tank and a two gallon header. Total fuel is a bit shy out here on the west coast, as some of the legs can be over two hours in calm winds. If you decide to install the C85 I would consider wing tanks a must. There is no STC for wing tanks in the metal rib wings.
The last item would be the wing struts. They are tougher to find than a Carny with teeth. If you don't have them start looking now.
Let me know if I can be of help. It's good to see more interest in the pre- war models.
Paul
Mailing Adress : Paul Agaliotis 2060 E. San Martin, San Martin,Calif. 95046
Clint,
Look in your toolbox, in the "sheetmetal repair" drawer and get your automatic center punch. You know, the one you got in A&P school and now cannot live without? (still have mine from school and its used ever week!)
Take that and get on a creeper and roll down the fuselage, punching the bottom of the fuselage tubing with the punch. When you hear a nice firm ring then you know the tubing is in good shape, but when its rusty you will know. Pay very close attention to the lower longerons in the tail section. This is the lowest section in the fuselage and where moisture ends up. Also the rudder post.
Best way that I know of to check tubing for rust.
Joe A
Look in your toolbox, in the "sheetmetal repair" drawer and get your automatic center punch. You know, the one you got in A&P school and now cannot live without? (still have mine from school and its used ever week!)
Take that and get on a creeper and roll down the fuselage, punching the bottom of the fuselage tubing with the punch. When you hear a nice firm ring then you know the tubing is in good shape, but when its rusty you will know. Pay very close attention to the lower longerons in the tail section. This is the lowest section in the fuselage and where moisture ends up. Also the rudder post.
Best way that I know of to check tubing for rust.
Joe A