On the phone with Bill de Creeft in Alaska right now and we are discussing long range flights on the Sedan. To do this you need to be accurate with leaning the engine, yet keep the CHT in reasonable ranges.
He has a single point EGT and CHT on his engine, and I am about to be in the same boat. The question is, which cylinder is the warmest on this engine, as well as which exhaust header is the best one to use for the EGT?
I always thought that one of the rear cylinders was the warmest on most engines. Anyone out there with one of the 6 position CHT setups that can shed any light on this?
Thx,
Joe A
CHT and EGT on the C-145 or O-300 engine
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Nathan K. Hammond
- Posts: 2371
- Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 00:22
- Location: Danville, KY (DVK)
- Contact:
Re: CHT and EGT on the C-145 or O-300 engine
O-300D; 1965, C172
#3 was the hottest CHT, but #4 always peaked first. JPI-700
I know you don't want to hear it, but spend the coin on a 6-cyl annalizer with fuel computer. By far the best money we EVER spent on the airplane! Being able to diagnose problems was second to none, and a fuel computer is the greatest thing since beer in a can.
nkh
#3 was the hottest CHT, but #4 always peaked first. JPI-700
I know you don't want to hear it, but spend the coin on a 6-cyl annalizer with fuel computer. By far the best money we EVER spent on the airplane! Being able to diagnose problems was second to none, and a fuel computer is the greatest thing since beer in a can.
nkh
7AC-5691
Super 85-12F @ DVK
Super 85-12F @ DVK
Re: CHT and EGT on the C-145 or O-300 engine
Nate,
Even with a carb engine? Had always heard that the 6 port unit was well worth having on a fuel injected engine but not so much with a carb.
Have read several articles on "lean of peak" leaning and everyone of them say its the best thing since sex on a pogo-stick but only for fuel injected engines and is not recommended for carb versions.
Thanks for the info on the CHT!
Joe
Even with a carb engine? Had always heard that the 6 port unit was well worth having on a fuel injected engine but not so much with a carb.
Have read several articles on "lean of peak" leaning and everyone of them say its the best thing since sex on a pogo-stick but only for fuel injected engines and is not recommended for carb versions.
Thanks for the info on the CHT!
Joe
Re: CHT and EGT on the C-145 or O-300 engine
Although I've heard it before, it seems like lean of peak will drive up the exhaust temperatures to a undesirable amount. I always thought an engine ran better slightly rich than slightly lean but have nothing to prove it one way or the other. Regarding sex on a pogo stick: is it worth trying 
? (Probably not at my age 
).
MikeB
? (Probably not at my age ).MikeB
Re: CHT and EGT on the C-145 or O-300 engine
We never ran LOP because of the carburetion, and Nate didn't say we did. Definitely worth having though as even when leaning on the rich side you can get much more precise about the mixture setting. And as Nate says, diagnosing cylinder/exhaust problems becomes a cinch, no more cold-jugging with a screw driver handle. Plus you can watch your fuel flow and usage down to the tenth, always a good thing on those longer trips.
To make houses smaller, pull back on stick.
Re: CHT and EGT on the C-145 or O-300 engine
Which unit do you guys recommend?
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Nathan K. Hammond
- Posts: 2371
- Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 00:22
- Location: Danville, KY (DVK)
- Contact:
Re: CHT and EGT on the C-145 or O-300 engine
Trending is also really nice. After 50-100 hours you notice how all the cylinders stack up on the graph; so when #1 peaks before #4 you know there's something changing. In our case, an intake rubber was loosening up allowing that cylinder lean out prematurely. Team up an engine annalizer with oil sampling and your motor will have better healthcare than you. 
I've been partial to JPI; their sending units are a little better quality in my opinion, and I like the layout of their equipment. The O-300 had a JPI-700 with Fuel Computer which is darn near perfect for "simple" motors. My work plane has a AEIO-540 and a JPI-930 which functions as the primary engine gauges. It's the cats ass, but probably overkill for a Sedan.
nkh
I've been partial to JPI; their sending units are a little better quality in my opinion, and I like the layout of their equipment. The O-300 had a JPI-700 with Fuel Computer which is darn near perfect for "simple" motors. My work plane has a AEIO-540 and a JPI-930 which functions as the primary engine gauges. It's the cats ass, but probably overkill for a Sedan.
nkh
7AC-5691
Super 85-12F @ DVK
Super 85-12F @ DVK
Re: CHT and EGT on the C-145 or O-300 engine
Joe,
I have the JPI EDM-700 installed in N1331H. Upon strong recommendation by a friend who had one in his C 170, mainly to detect trends, just as Nathan mentioned. As you know, I have no experience with it, so far, but soon. And you might even try it out yourself!
(Holidays now look like August, but still not confirmed, yet.)
Joe Polizotto (JPI boss) has promised me for more than two years and more than 30 emails that he will have the Sedan added to the STC list of the EDM-700. I just wanted to avoid being asked silly questions by the examiner here in Switzerland. As soon as the Sedan is on the list, I will post it in this thread. IF it will ever happen, that is...
Matt
I have the JPI EDM-700 installed in N1331H. Upon strong recommendation by a friend who had one in his C 170, mainly to detect trends, just as Nathan mentioned. As you know, I have no experience with it, so far, but soon. And you might even try it out yourself!
(Holidays now look like August, but still not confirmed, yet.) Joe Polizotto (JPI boss) has promised me for more than two years and more than 30 emails that he will have the Sedan added to the STC list of the EDM-700. I just wanted to avoid being asked silly questions by the examiner here in Switzerland. As soon as the Sedan is on the list, I will post it in this thread. IF it will ever happen, that is...
Matt
Re: CHT and EGT on the C-145 or O-300 engine
Hmmm, now it appears that I need to add this to the list of "things to get once I have a full time job again!"
Looked at them on the net and also Ebay. A bit pricey but looking at the cost of fuel these days helps pay it off faster.
Thanks everyone!
Joe
Looked at them on the net and also Ebay. A bit pricey but looking at the cost of fuel these days helps pay it off faster.
Thanks everyone!
Joe
Re: CHT and EGT on the C-145 or O-300 engine
These entries and the note you sent have been a big help, Joe.
I'm going to add the other probes and the selector switch...I already have the fuel flow meter, and the single egt/cht...and it won't be as slick as the whole single-unit but it will save a few bucks and give me the ability to keep an eye on every thing.
I'll report back.
Picture of the sedan on the website now... http://www.alaskaseaplanes.com ... haven't figured out how to add pic to forum .
Bill
Homer
I'm going to add the other probes and the selector switch...I already have the fuel flow meter, and the single egt/cht...and it won't be as slick as the whole single-unit but it will save a few bucks and give me the ability to keep an eye on every thing.
I'll report back.
Picture of the sedan on the website now... http://www.alaskaseaplanes.com ... haven't figured out how to add pic to forum .
Bill
Homer
Bill de Creeft
Re: CHT and EGT on the C-145 or O-300 engine
Bill
It is good to hear that you are enjoying the Sedan! Joe has kept me up to date on your progress buying and converting it to a seaplane. If you like, please email me a couple of pictures for the Sedan gallery (full size and resolution, no matter how big the files): http://www.n1331h.com/sedan_gallery
Thank you and best regards from Switzerland,
Matt
It is good to hear that you are enjoying the Sedan! Joe has kept me up to date on your progress buying and converting it to a seaplane. If you like, please email me a couple of pictures for the Sedan gallery (full size and resolution, no matter how big the files): http://www.n1331h.com/sedan_gallery
Thank you and best regards from Switzerland,
Matt
Re: CHT and EGT on the C-145 or O-300 engine
Bill,
Glad to see you on the thread.
Its really been helpful for me as well.
As for your picture, here it is!
Glad to see you on the thread.
Its really been helpful for me as well.
As for your picture, here it is!
Re: CHT and EGT on the C-145 or O-300 engine
Joe !!
That picture is terrific!
I'm going to see how I can put it that size on the website...
Some neat details, to the seaplane pilot's eye, I hadn't seen in the small pic:
That is a family of Trumpeter Swans...supposed to be not compatable with floatplanes!!
This pair raises a set of new ones every summer on this lake...they used to love the de Havillands because the water rudders stirred up all the goodies off the bottom.
Notice also the galvanized tub (glass bottom) and the big magnet on the dock...
That's because the door handle fell off and landed in the lake; it's still there because it's aluminum, but I'll get it next summer when we get more sunlight I hope.
Meantime i put on a pilot's door handle off an Otter...(I'm working on the paperwork to raise the gross to 8,000 lbs. now...)
The seaplane door is installed now so no worries anyway !
Notice from the "crud line" on the floats how the little Sedan floats like a cork on the '2,000's'...add me and 340 pounds to gross and it still floats good (sitting there about half tanks, where i keep it).
You guys ! The VG's made such a difference that I called them up...
There is some relationship between the wing and the tail on the sedan that effects the tail under some conditions that is not there with the vg installation...I can feel it but I will leave it to them to explain if anyone is contemplating VG's.
Haven't flown it much with loads yet and not at all on floats, so nothing to report...but by the time I get to Phoenix (is there a song in there somewhere??) and Joe flies the airplane maybe he can report on it.
That should be in April.
Meantime, I like them.
I'm getting ready for First of April departure down the road to Az. and Calif...
Will try and send Iphotos along the way, care of you, Joe.
Bill
That picture is terrific!
I'm going to see how I can put it that size on the website...
Some neat details, to the seaplane pilot's eye, I hadn't seen in the small pic:
That is a family of Trumpeter Swans...supposed to be not compatable with floatplanes!!
This pair raises a set of new ones every summer on this lake...they used to love the de Havillands because the water rudders stirred up all the goodies off the bottom.
Notice also the galvanized tub (glass bottom) and the big magnet on the dock...
That's because the door handle fell off and landed in the lake; it's still there because it's aluminum, but I'll get it next summer when we get more sunlight I hope.
Meantime i put on a pilot's door handle off an Otter...(I'm working on the paperwork to raise the gross to 8,000 lbs. now...)
The seaplane door is installed now so no worries anyway !
Notice from the "crud line" on the floats how the little Sedan floats like a cork on the '2,000's'...add me and 340 pounds to gross and it still floats good (sitting there about half tanks, where i keep it).
You guys ! The VG's made such a difference that I called them up...
There is some relationship between the wing and the tail on the sedan that effects the tail under some conditions that is not there with the vg installation...I can feel it but I will leave it to them to explain if anyone is contemplating VG's.
Haven't flown it much with loads yet and not at all on floats, so nothing to report...but by the time I get to Phoenix (is there a song in there somewhere??) and Joe flies the airplane maybe he can report on it.
That should be in April.
Meantime, I like them.
I'm getting ready for First of April departure down the road to Az. and Calif...
Will try and send Iphotos along the way, care of you, Joe.
Bill
Bill de Creeft
Re: CHT and EGT on the C-145 or O-300 engine
Hi Matt
Thanks!
I'll try and get some pics...but I won't be on floats again until May...
As you see I'm planning to fly down the Alcan (on wheels) in April and I'll stay in touch along the way.
I flew it back from the Chicago area summer before last, but the plane was in such scrambled up condition that it was an ordeal.
('My mother told me if you can't find anything nice to say, don't say anything at all!')
This time I have been clear through the airplane, and operated it all summer, so we are ready for the trip; need only warmth and longer days!
I've flown the Alcan 20 times since 1962 so not scared of the distance...but just not as brave as i used to be !
So now I've got good gas tanks, flowmeter, and temp guages...
"Should be a piece of cake !?!"
The Iphone takes good pictures out of doors, and i hope to send some reports along the way.
I know I'm not the first on this list to trundle down the road in a sweet little sedan, so I'll try not to bore you guys...but it should be fun and I'd like to share it..
I'm retired from commercial flying (78 in May) ...all i have to do is make myself slow down, my wife says (but she's not coming with me !?!)
I took her seat out and I can sleep on the floor for afternoon naps!
Bill
Thanks!
I'll try and get some pics...but I won't be on floats again until May...
As you see I'm planning to fly down the Alcan (on wheels) in April and I'll stay in touch along the way.
I flew it back from the Chicago area summer before last, but the plane was in such scrambled up condition that it was an ordeal.
('My mother told me if you can't find anything nice to say, don't say anything at all!')
This time I have been clear through the airplane, and operated it all summer, so we are ready for the trip; need only warmth and longer days!
I've flown the Alcan 20 times since 1962 so not scared of the distance...but just not as brave as i used to be !
So now I've got good gas tanks, flowmeter, and temp guages...
"Should be a piece of cake !?!"
The Iphone takes good pictures out of doors, and i hope to send some reports along the way.
I know I'm not the first on this list to trundle down the road in a sweet little sedan, so I'll try not to bore you guys...but it should be fun and I'd like to share it..
I'm retired from commercial flying (78 in May) ...all i have to do is make myself slow down, my wife says (but she's not coming with me !?!)
I took her seat out and I can sleep on the floor for afternoon naps!
Bill
Bill de Creeft
Re: CHT and EGT on the C-145 or O-300 engine
Where did you buy your fuel flowmeter? That would be a nice addition to my Sedan when I get it back together. I flew my Sedan from Girdwood to Minneapolis and back in 88. The flowmeter would have been real nice to have had then. I was very cautious and made many stops along the way to pour in fuel from my jerry cans. I'll be happy when the aux tanks are available.
I wish I could fly along with you to drop in on Joe, but looks like my plane will still be in way too many pieces then.
Nice photo! It reminds me there are some things I'm missing since moving out of Southcentral....Louis
I wish I could fly along with you to drop in on Joe, but looks like my plane will still be in way too many pieces then.
Nice photo! It reminds me there are some things I'm missing since moving out of Southcentral....Louis