My last annual came with the news that I will probably be needing a new jug for my 0-235 in the next year... (60/80) I see where A.E.R.O. has them for about $1500 ea. but wanted to know if anyone had any other suggestions?
http://www.aeroinstock.com/products/Lyc ... index.html
Are rebuilt/yellow-tagged cylinders worth considering, and/or are they even available?
Thanks!
Bob K.
Anchorage, AK
0-235 Cylinders?
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Roger Anderson
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Re: 0-235 Cylinders?
There are a bunch of cylinder rebuilder/overhaulers around. I used Gibson of El Reno but at the moment don't know how I feel about them. However, if your cylinder is serviceable for an overhaul, it's only about $300 - $400 depending. That's honed, new valve guides, seats, valves reconditioned, piston cleaned, new rings, seals, painted, etc. Turn around time with Gibson is only about a week. They usually have a very good reputation. I may just be having a little bad luck with a couple of A65s they did. They did say that the A65s do seem to cause the most additional trouble.
Re: 0-235 Cylinders?
Bob,
I wouldn't panic right away. Cylinder pressures have a habit of going up and down. 60/80 today, may be 70/80 next week. Take it out, run it hot and recheck it. They're supposed to be at operating temperatures or at least warmed up before checking. Lots of IA's don't do that and servicable cylinders get condemned on that basis. Remember your piston is in that position (TDC) for only a milli-second when running at operating speed and temperature. Plus, you're only putting 80 psi behind the upper ring to seat it when the cylinder pressures are a lot higher at operation. Finally, it depends on where the leakage is going, whether out the valves or past the rings. I'd do a lot of checks first including a borescope and a good listening.
If it has lots of hours, blowing oil and due that's a different story.
MikeB
I wouldn't panic right away. Cylinder pressures have a habit of going up and down. 60/80 today, may be 70/80 next week. Take it out, run it hot and recheck it. They're supposed to be at operating temperatures or at least warmed up before checking. Lots of IA's don't do that and servicable cylinders get condemned on that basis. Remember your piston is in that position (TDC) for only a milli-second when running at operating speed and temperature. Plus, you're only putting 80 psi behind the upper ring to seat it when the cylinder pressures are a lot higher at operation. Finally, it depends on where the leakage is going, whether out the valves or past the rings. I'd do a lot of checks first including a borescope and a good listening.
If it has lots of hours, blowing oil and due that's a different story.
MikeB
Re: 0-235 Cylinders?
Agree with Mike.
If its going past the rings would feel a lot better than valves. If its going past the valves its never going to get any better unless its a bit of carbon under a valve.
Pull the prop through from time to time and see if you can feel a major difference. If not then fly it. Frankly I can make the readings show almost anything I want to when doing a compression check if the valves are not leaking. A lot of it is technique.
Joe A
If its going past the rings would feel a lot better than valves. If its going past the valves its never going to get any better unless its a bit of carbon under a valve.
Pull the prop through from time to time and see if you can feel a major difference. If not then fly it. Frankly I can make the readings show almost anything I want to when doing a compression check if the valves are not leaking. A lot of it is technique.
Joe A
Re: 0-235 Cylinders?
Thanks for the replies!
This jug has been soft for at least 3 years now, starting out around 64, then 62, and now 60. The engine was run before all of the compression tests, and was up to temp, etc... The other 3 aren't nearly as bad, with the second worst being somewhere around 69, I believe. The engine doesn't really use much oil, and prefers to be at 5qts rather than 6, at least according to the dipstick. (I might add 1qt in 20 hrs of flying) (Oil is Phillips 20/50 along with Camguard) I don't have the books here, but I think there is about 800hrs on the engine SMOH.
If I had to guess (uh oh...) Id say that its leaking past the rings. My only reason for saying that is that occasionally I get a pretty fair amount of oil/gunk blowing out of the exhaust pipe, all over the gear leg. However this doesn't happen all the time, so my thought is that perhaps the rings are occasionally aligning and thereby increasing blow-by? (Like I said, wild a$$ guess here...)
But I don't really put much stock in that theory because I think Id be going through a lot more oil if that were the case...
My mechanic said he knew a guy that had a yellow-tagged rebuilt cylinder for $1300, but it seems for an extra $200 a new one sounded better... I just wanted to feel out what others have done for new jugs and then go talk with the mechanic again.
Thanks again!
Bob K.
Anchorage, AK
This jug has been soft for at least 3 years now, starting out around 64, then 62, and now 60. The engine was run before all of the compression tests, and was up to temp, etc... The other 3 aren't nearly as bad, with the second worst being somewhere around 69, I believe. The engine doesn't really use much oil, and prefers to be at 5qts rather than 6, at least according to the dipstick. (I might add 1qt in 20 hrs of flying) (Oil is Phillips 20/50 along with Camguard) I don't have the books here, but I think there is about 800hrs on the engine SMOH.
If I had to guess (uh oh...) Id say that its leaking past the rings. My only reason for saying that is that occasionally I get a pretty fair amount of oil/gunk blowing out of the exhaust pipe, all over the gear leg. However this doesn't happen all the time, so my thought is that perhaps the rings are occasionally aligning and thereby increasing blow-by? (Like I said, wild a$$ guess here...)
But I don't really put much stock in that theory because I think Id be going through a lot more oil if that were the case... My mechanic said he knew a guy that had a yellow-tagged rebuilt cylinder for $1300, but it seems for an extra $200 a new one sounded better... I just wanted to feel out what others have done for new jugs and then go talk with the mechanic again.
Thanks again!
Bob K.
Anchorage, AK
Re: 0-235 Cylinders?
Bob,
The way you describe it, that's a different story, although 800 hours doesn't seem like a much service since overhaul either. I alway have a concern with the leakage test as I had a bad experience once on a Lycoming 0320 where the IA was going to condemn a cylinder based one one test of around 60/80. I asked for a cranking compression test and all four cylinders were around 130 psi and within 5 pounds. Maybe he was just jerking my chain. This was probably 20 years ago and the engine is still running strong with around 1500 hours on it, burns very little oil and makes good power. Obviously some common sense is necessary.
Regarding the cylinders cost, I can understand where you're coming from as I just bought 4 nickel ECI's for around $900 each (0200) as it would have probably cost me $500 each, give or take a little by Bolduc, to have the old onces reconditioned and probably one or more (based on previous experience) would have been rejected for one reason or another so I opted to bite the bullet and buy new. Hopefully the pain will subside once the plane is in the air....
Good luck!
MikeB
The way you describe it, that's a different story, although 800 hours doesn't seem like a much service since overhaul either. I alway have a concern with the leakage test as I had a bad experience once on a Lycoming 0320 where the IA was going to condemn a cylinder based one one test of around 60/80. I asked for a cranking compression test and all four cylinders were around 130 psi and within 5 pounds. Maybe he was just jerking my chain. This was probably 20 years ago and the engine is still running strong with around 1500 hours on it, burns very little oil and makes good power. Obviously some common sense is necessary.
Regarding the cylinders cost, I can understand where you're coming from as I just bought 4 nickel ECI's for around $900 each (0200) as it would have probably cost me $500 each, give or take a little by Bolduc, to have the old onces reconditioned and probably one or more (based on previous experience) would have been rejected for one reason or another so I opted to bite the bullet and buy new. Hopefully the pain will subside once the plane is in the air....
Good luck!
MikeB
Re: 0-235 Cylinders?
IMHO, $1300 sounds way too high...
Re: 0-235 Cylinders?
It looks like it was a little over $1500 from A.E.R.O but all the suppliers seem to have the same prices for new kits. If they have them. Kind of like a new Garmin...the prices are pretty much sewed up by the manufacturer. About the only thing you can save on is free shipping. I think I'd be tempted to find a good servicable 0235 cylinder, get it rebuilt and ready to install.
Mike
Mike
Re: 0-235 Cylinders?
$1300 for a used unit IS way too high. Look around and you will find a more reasonable priced unit. Is it possible for you to have your old one fixed? I'd explore that option too.
Here are a couple of possibilities from Barnstormers.com.
Mike
LYCOMING 0-235L2C • $2,500 • FOR SALE • An L2C with perhaps a few hundred hours left before overhaul but sold as a core for overhaul. April 2009 compression check: 74/80,80/80,80/80,78/80. Removed from aircraft April 2009. TTSN:11321.7, TSMOH:2849.4 Can be crated for shipment for an additional $95.00 . Thanks for looking. • Contact Nick A. Leonard, Owner - located Pipe Creek, TX USA • Telephone: 830-688-1117 . 830-535-4823 • Posted June 9, 2010 •
4-0235C1 CYLINDERS AS REMOVED • $350 • LOOK AT THIS • Valves and all. Hist. unknown. Small Ex Valves. Auto fuel use only unless Changed out for larger. • Contact John R. Badenhope, Owner - located Greeneville, TN USA • Telephone: 423-747-5467 . • Posted May 5, 2010 • Show all Ads
Here are a couple of possibilities from Barnstormers.com.
Mike
LYCOMING 0-235L2C • $2,500 • FOR SALE • An L2C with perhaps a few hundred hours left before overhaul but sold as a core for overhaul. April 2009 compression check: 74/80,80/80,80/80,78/80. Removed from aircraft April 2009. TTSN:11321.7, TSMOH:2849.4 Can be crated for shipment for an additional $95.00 . Thanks for looking. • Contact Nick A. Leonard, Owner - located Pipe Creek, TX USA • Telephone: 830-688-1117 . 830-535-4823 • Posted June 9, 2010 •
4-0235C1 CYLINDERS AS REMOVED • $350 • LOOK AT THIS • Valves and all. Hist. unknown. Small Ex Valves. Auto fuel use only unless Changed out for larger. • Contact John R. Badenhope, Owner - located Greeneville, TN USA • Telephone: 423-747-5467 . • Posted May 5, 2010 • Show all Ads