Battery with no generator

[Alan Williams]

I'm a new Champ owner, 7AC/BCMConv. Has a C-85-12 with no starter or gen. I'm wanting to put a SkyTech starter on the bird but there is no electrics. I know the starter is approved for the engine and the push button is approved for the airplane but I got to install a battery/electrical sys. in the airplane. Does anyone have an approved 337 form where you've done this in a Champ. I'm good with having to recharge the battery periodically, where should the battery be mounted?

[RRHaldeman]

Check into the Lasher STC. His grandson issues and STC to convert the 7AC with a starter. I'm in the process of installing a Sky-tech starter and battery. I'm putting my sealed battery at Station 54, just behind the back seat attached to the frame, sitting on the floorboard.

[Carl Prather]

Allen,

I think you should talk to your IA and see what might be needed for a total loss electrical system. With all the hand propping incidents, I would think the FAA would be keen to accommodate your request.

Here's a link with an FAA Advisory Circular regarding Major Repairs and Alterations:

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_an ... 43-210.pdf

If there so happens to be a 337 dated before 10/01/55, the FAA considered that approved data, which is like gold for these kind of mods. I've found a 12 gal tank addition for Taylorcraft L-2's, DC-65s and a C-85 upgrade for Luscombes without converting the plane to an non-LSA compliant 8E.

Aeronca.com might have some 337's in Todd Trainor's fine website.

Carl Prather

[jepropst]

I have and installation somewhat similar to yours. I have a 7AC with a C-85-12 installed under the Lasher STC. Note that the Lasher STC approves the installation of the C-85-12 engine but does not provide approval of the electric system. I have a Sky-Tec starter installed under a separate 337 in accordance with their STC. I obtained a field approval to install the electrical system with the Concorde sealed battery installed on the firewall. After flight tests, I determined that I could improve the CG flexibility by moving the battery and solenoid to the floor behind the back seat. (Note that I have other CG factors such as a field approved “C-90 Long motor mount which is 2” longer than the standard motor mount and two 13 gallon wing tanks). Bill Pancake assisted me in the design and installation of a suitable steel frame for securing the battery to the airframe and floor. I am currently seeking a field approval for relocating the battery from the firewall to the floor behind the back seat. I charge my battery periodically with an external battery charger.

[joea]

Alan,

Welcome on board.

Look here when you get a chance: http://aeronca.com/337/

Lots of 337's that might help you. First of the starter comes with the STC needed, so nothing extra there.

Putting a battery on the plane can be done with a 337 and there is one at the website above to assist your IA with that.

I know of a lot of Chief/Champ owners who are doing this, putting a trickle charger on the bird when its in the hangar and just flying it without a generator. Good move for safety and you can also use it to power a handheld radio and GPS.

Joe A

[MikeB]

Tim Juhl off this site has a very well written and approved total loss starter installation using the Sky-tec starter. Not sure if I have the copies scanned on my other computer but if I do I can forward them to you.
MikeB

[RRHaldeman]

Alan,

I have a 337 for the battery with the Skytech starter. I got it from another Champ owner. Mine is now installed but we have not completed the renovation or the 337 for our installation. If you want what I have, send me an email and I'll email the 337 to you.

[Alan Williams]

Thanks to all that replied. I am an A&P/IA and have already discussed this with my local FAA guys. They are receptive to a field approval to inhance safety but it always helps to have a copy of previously approved data. The listed 337 is for a Chief and is similar and could be used but data for a Champ would go thru easier. I've been messing around with Classics for a number of years and field approvals seem to be getting harder and harder to get.

Alan

[joea]

Alan,

I have the factory blueprints for a battery installation in a Chief if that would help.

Joe A

[Carl Prather]

Alan,

I'll talk to my IA. He's keen on this sort of thing and annuals several Champs (but NO Bonanzas!) in the SFO area.

Carl

[boris48]

joea. Hi..I am going to be putting the sky-tech on my chief with the odyssey battery. So, to get ahead of the process, was wondering if you could send or forward the battery mount drawings. I am in no hurry..will be installing in november Thanks, Boris airknocker48@yahoo.com

[joea]

Boris,

Sorry for the delay but am still looking for the drawing!

Joe A

[rkittine]

Hi Boris,

I have the battery installed in my Chief in the rear baggage compartment and did it via a field approval on a 337. The Sealed Lead Acid Batteries are supposed to be charged with a "Fixed Voltage" charger and Trickle Chargers are not recommended, though on the Chief I use a Fixed Output Solar Cell (shuts off if the voltagedrops), that works well.

On my 7CCM Champ, I have the Battery on the floor at the back of the front seat and since that plane is in a hanger were I have power, I leave one of the new 4 level chargers on it. This charger, charges the batter to just under full power, then slow charges to full voltage and then shuts off and does not trickle. When the voltage drops more then .5 volts, it turns back on and tops off the battery without the risk of over charging.

Goggle Sealed Lead Acid Battery Chargers and you will find an abundance of these type chargers available from about $39.95 depending on how quickly you want to be able to do the fast charge portion.

Hope this is helpful.

Regards, Robert

[Carl Prather]

Alan,

I did speak to my IA thinking he had done one these installations but he hadn't. Hopefully, you'll get a good response from other lsiters.

Carl

[jepropst]

Allan, I just finished installing a sealed battery behind the back seat in my Champ and have a field approval for the installation. There are a couple photos of the installation on my facebook at http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4 ... 0029296482 If you send my your email address, I can send you a copy of the 337/field approval and additional photos. As a little background, there are some old Aeronca drawings for installing drycell type batteries behind the seat in Champs and Chiefs. The installations basically consists of bolting a battery box to the floor board. When I was working with Bill Pancake on the design of my installation, I suggested that we could just extract the design concept from these old drawings and design a battery box that was bolted to the floor board. Bill commented that over the years battery boxes that were bolted only to the floor boards have broken loose during hard impacts. He said in order to submit a design for field approval he wanted to see the battery attached directly to the aircraft tubing under the floor board. Another point was that with the new sealed batteries, there is no longer a need for a battery box to contain the battery. The design that we ended up with consisted of clips and brackets attached around the airframe tubes under the floor boards. The clips are similar to Adel clamps except that they have two holes. The clips are fabricated from 4130 steel. The one set of holes has a small flathead bolt to hold the clip in place on the tube under the floor. The clips are installed with the rear floorboard removed. The second hole has an AN3 nutplate. A clamping bar is placed on top of the floorboard and bolted through the floorboard to the clips under the floor board. Rods are extended form the clamping bar up to a bar on top of the battery to hold the battery in place. There is also a mild steel plate that goes under the battery and partially up the front and back sides. The master solenoid is attached to this plate. There is a requirement that the master solenoid be located within a relatively short distance of the battery (can't remember the exact dimension). We lined the bottom and sides of the battery rack with adhesive backed foam to help protect the battery. I can be contacted at j.e.propst@ieee.org