Fuel Survey

[Orlan H Franks]

1. Orlan Franks
2. TEXAS
3. Auto (120 +/- hrs) or 100LL (30 +/- hrs) NO PLANNED MIXING, just occassional mixing due to type available convenience only. At home base I fill the tanks (13 gal & 5 gal) from 5 gallon Blitz cans - PITA! Only buy Av gas ($3.30 to $3.80/gal) at outlanding airports only, local service station Mogas is <$2.00 gal as of 11/12/06.
4. Yes (6 oz pro-rated to full tank capacity, ie., +6.5 gals fuel added = 3 oz MMO) PUT THE MMO in 1st after gauging tank with clean bare wood stir stick! 7AC 1929-32 Ford fuel guage works great but the stick is "mo better, mo safur, but not mo faster". GOTCHA, 1985.
5. A65, 1000 hrs +/-
6. Info only since May 5th, 2006 - my 1st day with this 7AC
7. No Mogas alcohol check, but most auto gas pumps display 10% ethanol
8. 1 valve stuck, 100 +/- hours ago, fuel used at that time was about 50% - 50%, with some Av gas added away from home base. Rope trick did not fix stuck valve, pulled cyclinder, cleaned years of built up on valve stem, lapped and reinstalled. MMO is added 9 out of 10 refuels plus 3-4 oz. in reservour with each oil change every 25 hours max. 1 to 2 oz. prorated added with each 1 quart oil replacement between oil changes. I'm burning 1 quart of oil every 3-4 hours tach time, running 2150-2300 rpm. NO OIL FILTER ON this A65.

We are building a C-85-8F with upgrades and will probably have to burn 100LL exclusively from break-in until its TBO. Compression ratio change plus lead padding will be a benefit at 2600+ RPM.

[onceacop]

Eric

Minnesota

Straight 91 Auto

Sometimes MMO or Amsoil sythetic- A shot or two or three

C90 450 SMOH and C85 1500 SMOH/200 STOH

9 years in three Champs and a Scout

No

No

[kparker]

Keith Parker

I have a 1941 TAC (tandum aeronca Continental)
It uses about 4 Gph
I use Auto gass about 90 % of time.
LL-100 when on trips
80 Hp continental 260 SMOH
Use MMO occassionally
Been flying this plane for 3 years
No stuck valves ..so far.

[jc pacquin]

When you guys put in the auto gas, don't you worry about ethonol? I am given to understand that it is detrimental to all seals. I used high test amoco in the stearman in the 80's but times they have changed. Do you test it every time? thanks jim pacquin

[joea]

Jim,

Legally any mogas with ethanol cannot be used in an airplane. The STC forbids it.

That said I am positive that someone somewhere has done it. There was a large discussion about this on the fAA (fearless Aeronca Aviators) email list recently and lots of moaning and groaning about it. Much of what they talk about is spot on.

Its not legal and there are some concerns that mogas with ethanol harms certain parts of our fuel system. So far I am still able to find some fuel in my area without it but how much longer that is the case is a good question.

Some others on the fAA list have commented that the ethanol is added as its being pumped into the tank trucks which bring it to the gas station. That brought up a comment that what about buying fuel in bulk for a group of local users in each local area. I would really support that and this may be what we have to do in the future to keep using mogas.

Joe

[MikeB]

The times I have tested auto fuel, I've never found ethanol in it. However, most stations in this area are now down to only having 'ethanol free' in premium (92 octane) fuel. I'm sure the price will approach $4.00 shortly. The station managers seem to have a pretty good handle on what's being put in their tanks, but this is a small community. Might be different in a larger area. Even with AV gas, several years ago the local FBO got a load contaminated with water so anything is possible.

They did have a 'gas club' at our local airport (private grass strip) years ago and before I became the manager. I guess it was a disaster finance wise as some owners fueled up and then didn't pay so pretty soon the money was gone and the tank was empty . Most of our people are good but you always have those who just work the system and are slow to pay or don't pay. Not a good answer if you're relying on good intentions to pay the bills. Our club dues are $20 per year and hangar assessment runs from $60-$100 per year depending on the hangar size for the actual 'footprint' used on our property. Believe it or not, there are those who we have to hound to get payment every year so we can pay the taxes and cut the grass, etc. .

Mike Berg

[big chief 48]

Hi.. Here are a few things I do, besides testing that give me a little peace of mind when using auto fuel. Of all the stations in our area (Pop. 120.000), there are only 2 that have a dedicated 4th tank for premium non oxy/alchohol gas. They have the normal blue/silver/gold. Careful of stations that advertise the premium is for older cars, it still may have alch. I actually talked to the owner/manager and saw the paperwork on the fuel to 100% see if it's virgin unleaded. Now I buy it without worry. The only time I have knowingly put in alch/fuel, 4-5 times a year, is if I am in the boonies and have to use snowmobile or boat gas. Then I make sure I run it all through and when I get home, immediately fill up with 50/50 of my trusted gas and 100LL. As long as the alch/gas does't "sit" in your plane the chances go way down of anything happening. my 2 cents

[oldedo]

Tony Markl on the fAA email list has been running a survey on fuel and our Aeronca's. Lets see if we cannot increase the information he is getting. This will help all of us.


1. Name Oldedo

2. Location State Florida

3. Type of fuel (Auto/100LL/Mix) Auto mostly,

4. MMO (if used and quanity and frequency) Yes, couple oz, every 5th tank or so, also add to oil

5. Engine type / Time since TOH C-85-8 / 750

6. Years using this procedure, about 20 years

7. Do you check for alcohol in the fuel? If so, how? Have off and on through out the years, use water mix method, had carb rebuilt to withstand a little ethinol

8. Have you had any stuck valves? If so what do you believe the cause was? No never.

Comments:

[jimknuck]

1. Jim Greer

2. Georgia
3. 100LL

4. MMO Every other tank 5 oz

5. A65/ 150
6. 1

7. no

8. no stuck valves

Comments:

[jc pacquin]

100 av gas always, MMO every other time, 5 ounces to 12 gal. JP

[rkittine]

Let's See If I Can Remember What the Questions are:

1. - Robert Kittine
2. - I live in New York (New York City and Long Island)
3. - We can still get Auto Gas without Ethonal delivered to the local airport, seaplane base and a number of marina's.
4. - Run 100% Auto Gas in a 1946 Chief - C-85-12 with the 0-200 Parts - about 500 hours since rebuilt - No problems with values
Run 20% Auto Gas in a 7CCM with a C-90-8 - about 1,550 hours since major. Has not been topped. - No problem with Values
5. - The providers of the Auto Gas check each load. I do not do any further checking.

[Champ99b]

1--Ron Clark
2--North Little Rock, Arkansas
3--A few local gas stations have it
4--Summer 100% auto gas with MMO 7FC Conv. C-90-12 No problems
5--kWinter 50% 100LL and auto fuel-MMO No proi]blems
6-- I check every 5 gal container even if I get it at the same time and same pump

The aircraft may be for sale if the airport keeps screwing with us and increasing and adding costs to the pilots.

I bought my hangar and now they want $1.oo sq ft ground rent and damage insurance payable to the airport and then give the hangar to the airport at the end of the lease.

[MikeB]

Wow! That is a rip off. If you have a 40 x40 hangar that would be $1600 per year just for the ground lease. Not to mention the insurance cost. Plus if you drop the lease the hangar belongs to them???? No other alternatives like a nice grass strip somewhere nearby??

Mike

[Champ99b]

Mike B

No the hangar belongs to them at the end of a 5 or 10 year lease. No choice

[rkittine]

Two of the airports that I fly out of allow for the construction of your own hanger at your own cost. In both cases the monthly rent is a flat $150.00, which is $1,800.00 per year, plus electric and insurance. I keep my Champ at one of these ariports, but rent in a gang hanger (three of us, but one of the planes is not flyable, so it is only a garage for that one), but I did not have to erect it and only pay $160.00 per month rent.

At my home base on Long Island, the cost of purchasing a ready erected single engine hanger was $144,500.00. This did include the ground it is on so if I were to leave I would still own the hanger and if the airport closed, I would still own it, but I am not sure what I would do with it. (Would make a nice garage and workshop I guess.) I do have to pay insurance as well as real estate taxes on it though. With the first two, if you build a hanger, it reverts to the airport if and when you leave or after a set number of years, though you get fist dibs on it as long as you continue to pay the $150.00 per month, so this is pretty common as far as I can tell.