Future Dilemma?

[joea]

If you can't rent them solo how can you do all of the stupid stuff that makes you a better pilot?

Paul

That sure brings back some memories! Glad I lived through all of my childhood stunts!

Joe A

[Paul Agaliotis]

Joe,
I've heard that if you split S out of a botched roll in a Citabria the skylight can blow out and you have to pull your headset in with the cord!
Paul

[joea]

Paul,

Thankfully I have never heard nor experienced that!

Joe

[addicted2climbing]

Hello,

I am new to this forum and this is my first post. Anyhow I read this thread and I can say I am running into some of the same problems. I want to learn in a TD and I am finding it tough to find a place that will train in a TD. My goals in aviation dont really include a cessna and I know that my passion is in older Tube and Fabric nostalgic planes. Also I prefer a stick to a yoke since I am coming from Sailplanes to Power and have no prior experience with yokes; I guess its what I know. Anyhow, I hope to own a Champ or Citabria one day which led me to this forum. I had a friend who was willing to teach me in his Champ out of Santa Paula and a week before we were to start he tragicaly died of an anurism a year ago.. It was so sad, but it did instil this desire to not let my dreams of flying pass by since life is so short and for one reason or another life has kept me form learning. Despite already knowing how to use my feet from flying sailplanes, CP aviation wont take a chance on me either even though they rent Citabrias. I recently enrolled in a groundschool course at the Van Nuys Airport and as soon as I am done in December I plan to start the flying portion. Most likely in a C172 if I dont find another option...

So far the only place I have found that will train in a TD is Sunrise aviation which is a bit far for me in Santa Ana California. Also its in a Cub which I do like, but I want to fly from the front seat which makes champs more desirable to me. My closest airport to me is Van Nuys, Whiteman or Santa Paula. Any chance there is a member on here who is a CFI in this general area willing to teach in their champ. Or at the very least one on here that has a champ I can look at and make sure I fit OK. I am 6'4" and 235lbs..

On another note, due to my size I am concerned with a champs useful load but have not found any info on it. What is the average usefull load of a Champ? A Citabria may be a better choice for me just for my weight since my dad is about the same size and we would want to fly together at times..

Best regards,

Marc

[Jerry Eichenberger]

Marc -

I can't be any help in your search for a training place, since I'm in Ohio.

However, it's going to be difficult to find many 2 place airplanes that can handle a cabin load of 470 pounds ( you and your dad ) plus enough fuel to be able to leave the trafffic pattern. Even a more modern Cessna 150 or 152 won't carry that load legally.

For sure, the average Champ or Chief won't - they were built 65 years ago when the average male did weigh around 160 to 170 pounds.

Since it appears that you don't require an LSA compliant airplane, perhaps something on the order of a Piper Pacer or PA-12 or early PA-18 might meet your requirements at a cost below that of a Citabria. But if you want a Citabria, check out their useful load - I can't remember as it's been 40 years since I flew one.

[Red(neck) Barron]

Marc,

If I were you, I would train in whatever is most accessable to you and not worry about it being something other than what you want to fly later on. In fact for us big boys, (I'm right up there with you, a couple inches shorter maybe but a tad bit more gravitational pull) a 172 or Warrior is perfect for training. You will need lights and radios and cross country miles so no sense doing it at 80 when you can be doing it at 120. You can make the transition later.

On the Champ vs. Cub issue, a Champ is a bit roomier and easier to get in and out of. Not EASY, just easier. Forty some years and a hundred pounds ago they were a LOT easier too. My Champ has had a gross weight increase to the LSA max of 1320 pounds and a 90 HP Continental to get me off the ground. I'm under gross with my 2 aux wing tanks and main tank full by about 60 pounds. With the wing tanks empty I can carry my wife along. Citabria's have a lousy useful load unless you go getting into a Scout. You're probably not going to find something in this class for the likes of you and Pop's. If your adament about a taildragger then I would be looking at a Cessna 170. Two doors and roomier than the short wing Pipers. If you've got lots of $$$$$'s then there are Maul's and Husky's.

[addicted2climbing]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the great info. Both my dad and I could stand to lose some weight but realisticaly he wont drop below 240lbs which wont help much. If I were to plan for myself and Girlfriend then the Champ would work fine. I spoke with a friend who flys and he suggested I just learn in a 172 as well then do IFR right away then the tailwheel. I suppose that is my best bet at the moment. I have also found a few STOL Kitplanes that can carry our weight well and still leave room for fuel. Maybe a father son project could work while I learn to fly. Sadly I dont have enough to afford anything close to a PA-18, Maul or Husky... One day perhaps..

Thanks again,

Marc

[Paul Agaliotis]

Marc,
That might be good advise. Once you have your PPL you can add the tailwheel endorsement. I would not continue with the IFR stuff unless you are planning to make a career flying. The most dangerous pilots out there are the non-current instrument rated pilots. In CA there isn't enough bad weather to stay current.
Paul

[joea]

Guys, guys, guys!!!!

What in the world are you talking about!!!!

Here on an Aeronca forum you are telling people to get a "spam can" airplane and forgetting the best Aeronca made ever!

Marc,

Take a look at an Aeronca Sedan and it will do everything you want and still carry more people or cargo! Full fuel (38 gallons, about 400 miles worth) and fly in front of any Chief or Champ around, land anywhere they will and usually take off shorter!

Yes I am biased but have had both and while they are nice, the Sedan is a peach of an taildragger and is an Aeronca as well!

Joe A
(PS, if I hear of any more mention of "buy a C-170 or that "P" airplane" instead of an Aeronca, I might just ban several people for a day or three! )

[Red(neck) Barron]

Oh dear! I must have inadvertently stepped on someone's feelers.

My most sincere appologies.

But really, a Sedan? Sure it would do the job but they aren't exactly a dime a dozen, in fact I doubt that in a years time the poor boy could find a dozen. Or even two good ones to learn to fly in. And then there's the issue of a qualified instructor; in his area to boot!

We were just trying to help the poor soul get his feet off the ground and being practical at the same time. We wouldn't think of being disloyal to our beloved Aeronca's.

Although if I get banned from the site for a day or three I might just have to go on a Cub forum for companionship.

[Muskokabob]

I have a sedan for sale if you are interested.

[CptKelly]

Get some training in a Maule. I have flown several models, they carry quite a load, and don't have a mean bone in their body. The M7-235 IS a rocket as well.

Mike

[joea]

I have a sedan for sale if you are interested.

See! Here you go, a real load carrier that is not a spam can!

Red,

If you really want to go play with Cubs, go have fun. Twice the cost, tiny cockpit, fly from the rear and they look funny. Its up to you!

Joe A

[Red(neck) Barron]

I don't think I can even get into a Cub anymore but they are a fun plane, I love that door and the way the tail comes up before the mains even move. A Cub was my Dad's favorite plane. He learned to fly about the time I was 6. Ike was still in his first term then. I got my first Champ when I was 15 and learned in it and was always partial to them over anything else. What I really liked about the Cub was how fast it made my Champ look. You can't beat flying low over the green Iowa countyside in your own Champ with your Dad and his Cub off your wing. Great memories.

Truth be told; there are durn few planes that I DON'T like, well except a C-150. That is one that I loath. I came into flying in a Champ and it looks like I'll go out the same way. Although I do think they are smaller than the ones I flew so many years ago.

[addicted2climbing]

Hey Guys,

I have to say some of these replies have been pretty amusing. Anyhow, I still would like to give a Champ a try as it would work for myself and girlfriend but as I said I know my dad will want to fly with me as well. My goals in flying is for fun and not so much in going long distances. Maybe weekend trips with a tent to out of the ordinary grass strips near the sierras. Or flights along the coast.

Ever since I can remember I wanted to learn to fly in a stick and rudder Taildragger and hope to own one someday. I have never liked jets and my favorite era in aviation is the "Golden Age" which is probably why I gravitate to the older nostalgic airplanes. Only downside is as mentioned all the older planes were set up for 2 average weight males in the 170lb range. It's the same in the sailplanes as I really like the older gliders from the 50's (Ka6 & Ka8) but I have the same problem with Gross Weight and also pilot size; I am just too tall.

Unfortunatley my budget will not allow for a Maule or Husky. As for a Spam Can I dont want one either, but living in Southern California Hangar space is at a premium so owning a rag wing plane has added expense unless I split a hangar with someone. My soon to be instructor said its not uncommon to buy a plane and then learn to fly it and he has a lot of hours in nostalgic TD planes. That is what led me to this site to get more info. However, as much as I would like to do that, I think my budget at the moment would favor renting and learning rather than buying, hangar fees and learning. I have still yet to fly in a Champ (flown a Citabria a few times) and if by chance there is anyone on here who lives in Southern california I would love the oportunity to go for a ride one day. However, I would imagine the pilot would need to weigh 150lbs...

Best regards,

Marc