Reaching the heel brakes on a 7AC

[RRHaldeman]

I'm near the end of finishing a total rebuild of a 7AC. I'm struggling with short feet and trying to reach the heel brakes if I use full rudder. In other words, if I have full right rudder and try to swing my right heel onto the heel brake pedal, I can't reach the pedal because it is behind my right heel; that is, the heel brake is further aft than my right heel. I am forced to lift my right foot off the right rudder, move my right foot back to the heel brake -- which I should not do if I want to maintain positive control. My IA and I have adjusted the cables and the pedals as far as we can, and it helped but I still can't reach the heel brake if I use full rudder. The idea I'm toying with is to build up the rudder pedal; that is, the pedal has an external diameter of 5/8". If I can find type of hose with an ID of 5/8" I could slip the hose over the rudder pedal and that would have the effect of moving my foot further back, ergo closer to the heel brake. If anyone else has thought about this and has another solution, please share it.

[Paul Agaliotis]

Try shortening the cable from the aft pedals to the forward set. If yours has a rod, put in a shorter one or switch to cables.
Paul

[jepropst]

Dick, I have the same problem in a Champ that you are describing. In the Chief the heel brakes pivot with the rudder peddle and is not a problem. Likewise in Champs converted to toe brakes there is not a problem. I don't think the problem is short feet but rather a vintage design where brakes on grass were seldom needed except for startup. My personal solution is to remain on the rudder as long as possible and forget about the brakes unless absolutely necessary to get the plane stopped. If necessary I will shift my feet from the rudder to the brakes and slowly apply pressure to the brakes until I begin to feel them being evenly and equally applied to both the left and right. About the only time I have a need for brakes is on startup, when landing on paved runways, and when trying to make tight turns.

[RRHaldeman]

Paul,

We tried ALL of those. I should mention that I have hydraulic brakes. The problem is that I have used up all of the adjustments. Any further "adjustment" of the heel brake pedal moves it so far forward I cannot get a full compression of the hydraulic brake. Any further adjustment of the rudder pedal backward would make the pedal lean backward past neutral (12 o'clock) and when I pushed on it, it would not move. If I could move the pivot point of the heel brake more forward (or move the pivot point of the rudder more rearward), the pivot points would be closer together and I could reach the heel brake with full rudder.

[RRHaldeman]

John,

I can envision landing in a stiff crosswind using full right rudder to keep the plane rolling straight when a gust of wind pushes the tail to the right (and the nose swings left). I need to add right brake NOW. If I remove my foot from the right rudder, it may be too late and I end up with a ground loop. I'm still working on my solution of adding some tubing to the rudder pedals. The idea is akin to a rudder extension pedal to make my feet move further back so that my heel can swivel and catch the heel brake without losing rudder control.

[Paul Agaliotis]

The brake pedals should always be on the stop when not in use. The forward spring and bar assembly keep them pulled to this location.
Having the rudder pedals aft of 90 degrees is not a problem, to a limit. They should operate with no undo force.
It sounds like your geometry is not correct or the installation is severely out of adjustment.
Paul

[Red(neck) Barron]

Your post really got me thinking. I bought my Champ a little over a year ago and the first thing I noticed was the awkwardness of the heel brakes. I hadn't flown a Champ for over 40 years and had forgotten about them since everything I had flown since had toe breaks, a Johnson bar or heel breaks that were connected to the rudder pedals. I just chaulked up my difficulty using them to having not flown in a long while; that, or just being a klutz. But once you talked about it I started actually thinking about the mechanics of the foot / pedal relationship and yesterday when The Devine Sixty-Nine and I went out to play I examined the setup from a more logistical point of view. It's obvious to me now that since the two sets of pedals are not interconnected that the distance will vary between them as the rudder is used and there really isn't anything that can be done about it. I hated landing without my brakes at my immediate disposal but since I've bought the Champ I've learned these new dance steps that I like to perform on landing and that just isn't a good time to be lifting from the 'go straight pedals' to the 'go slow pedals'. So now I just maintain control until she's slow enough that I can lift my foot enough to get on the brakes. I have even discovered a technique where, if I have a bit of a crosswind, my downwind foot is busy holding rudder anyway so I use my brake on the upwind wheel a little and just more rudder on the downwind side. Obviously this only work under a milder conditon. Now a stiff crosswind and a short runway; well, I guess a fella just has to be quick and good.

So I guess the only real solution is to convert to toe brakes but I remember once during my early days of training in a C-150 where my instructor had me pretty stressed out and I touched down with pressure on the brakes. I slammed the nose wheel down pretty hard. You know what that would do to a taildragger.

Pro's and Con's to everything I guess. So I didn't help you with your problem but you helped me understand mine so for that I owe you a Thank's.

[Paul Agaliotis]

If you feel better with the toe brakes, put them in. You can send me all of the junk you pull out. I'll give it a good home.
Paul

[Red(neck) Barron]

How did you interpret my post as me wanting toe brakes? I just suggested that was about the only way to have access to the brakes while dancing on the rudders.

[Paul Agaliotis]

So I guess the only real solution is to convert to toe brakes but I remember once during my early days of training in a C-150 where my instructor had me pretty stressed out and I touched down with pressure on the brakes. I slammed the nose wheel down pretty hard. You know what that would do to a taildragger.
I guess it was this paragraph.
Paul

[RRHaldeman]

Thanks for the dialogue. I'm tied up painting the Champ now, but I'm still planning to test my idea of adding something to the rudder pedals which, in effect will move my foot backward, hopefully allowing my heel to swing onto the brake pedal without the dance that has been described.

[vintageair]

Dick

I'm wondering, have you found this to be a problem in operation? What I mean is, have you flown the airplane and run into a situation where you had full rudder applied and needed to step on the brake as you are implying? I ask because mine (Cleveland hydraulic) seem to be set up the same as you describe, it would be difficult or impossible to get my heel on the brake with full rudder applied and I have never found this to be a problem. I think the important thing is to ensure that the brake pedals do not interfere with rudder application - that you won't inadvertently apply brake when stepping on the rudder pedal.

I find that I only use the brakes for run ups and certain taxi situations or parking. If you have enough crosswind that even with full right rudder you are still going left then there is not enough wind hitting the deflected side of the rudder for it to do anything anyway so taking your foot off the pedal and transitioning to the brake won't cause you to lose it. Once on the brake you'll have plenty of authority. Another option is to add power which will give you rudder effectiveness back and, if necessary just go around and give it another try. Sometimes, especially with gusts, it's just the luck of bad timing - you come back around and everything's hunky dory.

I'll agree they are not as handy as toe brakes in regards to being able to use them in conjunction with rudder input but in these light airplanes they are almost superfluous and can cause trouble in their own right if misused. I think if you try them as they are you'll find they aren't a problem. I certainly wouldn't go to the length of strapping appendages onto the pedals.

[MikeB]

I guess that (above) would be my thought but then I tend to avoid getting in the situation where things become too marginal. Basically, I'm a chicken when it comes to flying .
Anyhow (and finally) after several hundred hours in my Champ with Good year heel brakes I feel fairly comfortable with a crosswind although I still tend to avoid hard surface runways if at all possible.

MikeB

[jc pacquin]

Red Barron and Mike have good answers. I can't really say, after 50 years in the air what I do. It may be that all this will solve itself as you fly it some more. I have never ground looped ......(so far)..... so whatever I do seems to work. I know I stab at the brakes from time to time in a cross wing and I think I take my foot off the rudder to do this. I NEVER hit the brakes hard, never! ( I am also a chicken and try not to get into dicey situations. When I have in the past, luck played a very important part in my recoverys.!)Example, landing Stearman in stiff cross wind, veered off runway into grass, back onto runway, missed landing lights! If it had been the OTHER side of the runway, ditch and trees! Luckeeeee!JP

[vintageair]

Here's my "close one" I went back to take a picture and measurements. Couldn't have been more than half an inch, more like a quarter! This was many years ago in a rental Citabria. One, that for some reason, had been ground looped no less than four times (that I knew of) Fortunately never by me but I remember for an instant looking out through a windscreen full of parked airplanes and scattering bystanders, feeling totally like a passenger at that point, and saying to myself "So this is what it looks like to crash an airplane"

Then my left arm engaged it's own separate brain and firewalled the throttle. I bounded over a taxiway berm and landed square back on the runway. It was so smooth some people actually thought I had done it on purpose as some sort of demented stunt!