Future Dilemma?

[joea]

Marc,

I know of a really nice Sedan in SoCal that is for sale.

If you ever get close to Phoenix we might work out a ride in a Sedan.

Joe

[Lucy]

Hi,
I just wanted to say, I'm 24 and just bought a champ out in California. I flew it back to Virginia with my friend (32, also a pilot). It can be done! I did most of my training in Cessna 150s and 152s. When I moved to the DC area I found a tailwheel instructor and got my tailwheel endorsement in a champ. If you're ever around DC, I'm sure he'd take you up! He even puts skis on it in the winter and gives lessons on skis. A couple of weeks ago, he took me up in a Stearman and let me fly it around some. There is a guy here who does do Stearman instruction.
Best of luck!
-Lucy

[Paul Agaliotis]

Lucy,
I'm glad you had a great adventure. If I get back you're way I'll see if we can get together.
Was this the plane from Lancaster?
Paul

[Carl Prather]

Lucy,

That's great! A Champ is a nice plane to see the world go by, especially crossing the whole country!. You should think about going to the Middletown, Ohio Fly in and see more Aeroncas in one place then anywhere in the world. There is also the tremendous Air Force Museum and Wright Brother museum and memorials around town. Also if you haven't already, you might think about joining the National Aeronca Association.

Have fun.

Carl Prather

[Lucy]

Paul! I meant to call you. Yes, it's the one from Lancaster. We got it back and the only mechanical trouble we had on the trip was a flat tailwheel, which happened while taxiing to the runway so no other damage done. Definitely let me know if you're back this way!
-Lucy

[SFC Hiatt]

As Jerry pointed out, if the FBO won't rent solo it's their policy not the insurance company. If you're in CA we rent 2 Champs ( 7AC and L16) and a Chief for solo flight.
If you can't rent them solo how can you do all of the stupid stuff that makes you a better pilot?
Paul

Paul, what do they rent for and is that wet or dry?

[Paul Agaliotis]

The Champs rent for $70 an hour wet. Instruction rate is $35. All of the stuff is at our site. http://www.redskyaviation.com/index-5.htm
Paul

[Jerry Eichenberger]

Paul -

How can you rent your airplanes at those prices? Our L-16 clone rents for $82, and at that, barely is in the black.

These old airplanes take a huge amount of maint. to cope with rental use.

[Captgrumps]

Looks like they are promoting aviation rather than trying to make money. Like the old saying--"there is alot of money in aviation, I know I put it there."

[Paul Agaliotis]

Jerry,
I realized along time ago that there is no money in aviation. The rates make a little money for the school and cover the related costs.
The fastest way to lose your shirt is through your instructors. This has been the toughest hurdle to jump. There are a lot of instructors, but few can cut the mustard in these light airplanes. We are very selective on who instructs in our airplanes and we pay them well. Our expectations are also high for the instructors.
Insurance was a huge cost. When a Champ costs 6K a year to insure costs tend to rise. We now require all pilots to have a non-owners liability policy, to cover our losses. This works well for both parties, the insurance covers them in any plane they fly not just ours. This allowed us to lower our insurance costs. We own all of our aircraft so no hull coverage is required.
The maintenance costs are about par with all of the airplanes. We have needed engines but I built them so some savings are found there.
There needs to be a paradigm shift on some of the operating principals. The smart business person should be looking for ways to save money, not make money.
Paul

[addicted2climbing]

Hello Paul,

I just looked at your site and wish we had something similar down here in the Los Angeles area. Sport Pilot or Private Pilot training in a taildragger is pretty much non existant out here. And your rates are amazing. I use to have family in Livermore (ex wife family) and know the area and Aiport well. What a great place to toodle around in an Aeronca. Hopefully there will be an operation like yours in the greater Los Angeles area in the future.

Oh and Lucy, I was unaware of a Champ for sale in Lancaster. Thats quite close to me. How much did you get it for?

Take care,

Marc

[joea]

Hi,
I just wanted to say, I'm 24 and just bought a champ out in California. I flew it back to Virginia with my friend (32, also a pilot). It can be done! I did most of my training in Cessna 150s and 152s. When I moved to the DC area I found a tailwheel instructor and got my tailwheel endorsement in a champ. If you're ever around DC, I'm sure he'd take you up! He even puts skis on it in the winter and gives lessons on skis. A couple of weeks ago, he took me up in a Stearman and let me fly it around some. There is a guy here who does do Stearman instruction.
Best of luck!
-Lucy

Lucy,

Welcome on board!

When I purchased my last Aeronca the trip home was 1800 miles, so that should not bother someone. If you do not want to do it, we have a number of "ferry pilots" on the list who are more than happy to help getting it home for a new owner.

Glad to see you in a Aeronca. Pls post some pictures when you get a chance.

Joe A

[jc pacquin]

Speaking of cross country....how many have read "Flight of Passage" by Rinker Buck. It came out maybe 15 years ago. GREAT book about Rinker and his brother, flying a cub from long island to California when they were 15 years old! Its a hoot! Don't miss it! JC

[Roger Anderson]

The Champs rent for $70 an hour wet. Instruction rate is $35. All of the stuff is at our site. http://www.redskyaviation.com/index-5.htm
Paul

Moontown (Huntsville, AL), where Joe A.'s Chief ended up, rents their Champ for $65 wet, instructor $20 hr.

[Jerry Eichenberger]

Paul -

We charge $82, wet, for our 85 hp Champ with full electrics, including starter, 760 radio and transponder. With that equipment, a renter can take it anywhere. Like the old saying goes that is very true, operating costs increase substantially to maintain an airplane with an electrical system and avionics.

All of our instructors are middle aged; no kids just building time. We charge $35 for CFIs. That goes for all of our airplanes, not just the Champ. Our chief instructor is a retired banker, two others are engineers, another is an airline captain, another is a professional over ocean ferry pilot - those are the kinds of people we hire.

We have had no resistance from customers to our prices, but maybe because the only competition is about 80 miles away; is a 65 hp Champ, and that operation doesn't allow renters to go anywhere and turn off the engine - they allow renters to shoot touch and gos elsewhere, but no stopping the engine and propping it somewhere else - fairly restrictive to someone who wants to go flying. Of course, with our electrical system Champ, that's not an issue.

We charge $99 for our Tecnam Eaglet, and it flies about 400 hours a year. Remember, we're in Ohio with the lousy winter weather coming, so 400 hours a year is a lot of flying here, considering the climate we deal with.

We once had a 65 hp Champ, but our customers were all very glad to pay the extra required to fly an airplane with electrics and radio to increase their flexibility in their flying.

Like you, we require renter's to have non-owned insurance, as our FBO insurance protects us, but not the renter pilot, and we don't want any of our customers to go bare. We do pay the premium for hull insurance, but the total is only about $4K per year with the hull insured for $40K.