Chief 11AC Controls Stick conversion

[MikyBasso]

Hello everyone,
I just bought a Chief project.
I wonder if anybody has seen Chief converted to Control Stick instead of the wheel. I wonder if there is a STC or 337 for this conversion out there. AERONCA.com has a nice set of drawing made for the Chief 50C (1939). I wonder if it could be used for making a 337 documentation.

[skyking3286]

If you bought an 11AC, which is what I assumed:

I don't think that's possible. Two different designs. The stick Chief was developed at the insistence of a sales person and they didn't sell that many of them. One set of paperwork doesn't convert to another in FAA speak, especially since the only thing the two Chiefs share is the name.

By the time you spend getting the paperwork approved, you'll be able to buy two Champs with sticks. The Chief works just fine with a control wheel.
I don't think you will gain any value in the plane and could end up with a one-off that no one wants to buy from you.

If you bought a pre-war.... I still think it's going to be a long time to get one approved and it's going to be a lot more work than it seems.

Mark

[MikyBasso]

Mark,
thanks for your opinion. It is a 11AC Chief 1946. I have an Cessna 172 1980, and while I love my airplane I always wanted one day an airplane with control stick. I am not doing the Aeronca for value (money) but just for the prospective of having fun. I like the side by side configuration, so if I could find a way, why not. In the worst case just restore the airplane as original.

Miky Basso

[Dan1940Chief]

Mark,
thanks for your opinion. It is a 11AC Chief 1946. I have an Cessna 172 1980, and while I love my airplane I always wanted one day an airplane with control stick. I am not doing the Aeronca for value (money) but just for the prospective of having fun. I like the side by side configuration, so if I could find a way, why not. In the worst case just restore the airplane as original.

Miky Basso

If it's just for fun, why not de-certify it and make it an experimental?

[boris48]

nobody take my head off, but an J-4 is side by side, has a stick and a better performing wing. An 85 hp j-4 outperforms a 85 chief on floats. (by a little bit) Trust me I know!

[kyleb]

Mark,
thanks for your opinion. It is a 11AC Chief 1946. I have an Cessna 172 1980, and while I love my airplane I always wanted one day an airplane with control stick. I am not doing the Aeronca for value (money) but just for the prospective of having fun. I like the side by side configuration, so if I could find a way, why not. In the worst case just restore the airplane as original.

Miky Basso

If it's just for fun, why not de-certify it and make it an experimental?

Unless your DAR or FAA inspector is smoking something funny, they simply won't allow you to decertify a certificated airplane, modify it, and fly it as an experimental. The main exception would be for Experimenatal R&D (perhaps you're working on an engine STC). If you're certified that way, you'll only be able to fly solo and within a very restricted area. Also, that certification usually has a limited timeframe - say a year. Then you're back at step 1 - get it recertified.

Otherwise, we'd have a gazillion C-172's running around with "Experimental" stickers on the side..

[N86250]

I know this is heresy, but since you fly a 172 you obviously haven't limited yourself to Sport Pilot yet. I always admired the Commonwealth Skyranger for its sticks, C85 with electric, useful load, and roominess. But then the last time I sat in one I weighed 150, quite a bit less than my present 260. jrh

[Dan1940Chief]

Unless your DAR or FAA inspector is smoking something funny, they simply won't allow you to decertify a certificated airplane, modify it, and fly it as an experimental. The main exception would be for Experimenatal R&D (perhaps you're working on an engine STC). If you're certified that way, you'll only be able to fly solo and within a very restricted area. Also, that certification usually has a limited timeframe - say a year. Then you're back at step 1 - get it recertified.

Otherwise, we'd have a gazillion C-172's running around with "Experimental" stickers on the side..

But it wouldn't just be a sticker -- the OP is asking to basically reconstruct an airplane.

Why would the FAA care that the wings and tail feathers happened to come from a certified airplane?

[skyking3286]

The FAA was a little more open to the decertify action of production planes in the 1950s, but it quickly was apparent that taking apart production airplanes and then putting pieces back together without engineering or stress analysis wasn't going to be good for the fleet. The EAA was lucky to get them to approve homebuilding and the 51% rule, which keeps us from using very many production parts....the Breezy being an exception, but with all the welding to get the fuselage ready, it probably is 51%, even if it does use Champ/Piper wings.

The sad fact is that nearly 90% of the kits sold don't get finished by the original owner. I'd say fly the Chief for a while, then keep your eyes open for what you think you need after that. If 90% of your flying is solo, just rent for the times you want to share the experience. But bending tubing and welding with production planes usually isn't going to work very well, either with time, paperwork or end product. With the 11 Series, I don't know how you could re certify the aileron cable system without a lot of work and calculations. They don't even do as many 337s as they used to, let alone a whole control system in a production plane. Come to think of it, by the time you worked out the stick in the Chief, you could probably build a whole Wittman Tailwind or RV-9, certainly a RV-12. Sell the Chief, chip in another 10K and you have a new RV-12.

mark

[Rick Hadley]

Just go out and buy a Luscombe. You'll get a stick, 100+ mph cruise, and great handling for about the same price as a Chief.

[joea]

Just go out and buy a Luscombe. You'll get a stick, 100+ mph cruise, and great handling for about the same price as a Chief.

And its smaller inside and ground loops a lot easier!

[MikyBasso]

Hey Guys,
I love this Aeronca forum. I was not expecting so many replies. I loved hearing everyone's opinion. I been an avid reader of other posts and I really love all the nice pictures members post for their restoration projects.
However I think we are getting a little bit off the original post.
There are so many nice aircrafts out there, but I chose the small Aeronca 11AC Chief because I was looking for a small taildragger, a two place, small engine (65HP), low gas, tube and fabric classic, and especially wanted a small "basket case" project that I could complete on my own. At the end of the project it may cost more than it is worth, but that is fine as long as I have fun. I have no plans to sell my 172, this is just an extra airplane for me to play. It may take years to complete the project.

Saying that, the original intent of the post was:
- Has anybody ever seen a Chief 11AC (or other 11 series) converted to Control Stick.
- If so, can we find the N number.
- If N found, we could try to buy the CD aircraft records from the FAA and hopefully we maybe can find the 337 used to do the job.

I would not do anything on the Aeronca Chief (converting it to stick) unless I find first the above information. Again that is a wish list, if not met I can be perfectly happy with the Aeronca Chief in original configuration. Thanks to everyone's interesting comments. I hope this clarifies my original post.

Miky Basso

[Rick Hadley]

Just go out and buy a Luscombe. You'll get a stick, 100+ mph cruise, and great handling for about the same price as a Chief.

And its smaller inside and ground loops a lot easier!

True that!

[addicted2climbing]

Go to Barnstormers.com and in the search field type "Stick Chief" There is one for sale for 25K in El Cajon California. Maybe you could ask the owner some questions. Interestingly that plane is what brought me to this site as I had questions about my fitting in it. I was told by a previous stick chief owner not a chance at 6'4" and 240lbs..

Hope this helps,

Marc

[MikyBasso]

Marc,
thanks for looking out there. I saw that aircraft a few months ago on Barnstormers. Unfortunately, as they already mention, the previous 65AC Chief model where very different from the more modern 11AC series. You may notice from the picture the full frame structure is different (look thru the windshield and the tubular braces are oriented in the opposite direction.
I really do not understand why Aeronca, at the time, was not offering the stick option. As other has mention before, also, when I may start to fly it I may love the original Control Wheels and never miss not having a Control Stick.
In the mean time I will keep looking. Maybe somebody have seen one or seen a 337.
Thanks guys

Miky Basso