Engine Out in the Chief

[Flynlow]

I got to prove how well a Chief can fly on Sunday.

On Saturday morning, Phil and I took the fuel gauges out, replaced the glass and gaskets, then put them back in. Phil mentioned when taking out the front gauge that it was very loose. When we finished, I drove over to Taylor to watch a friend fly his new Auto-Gyro. Phil flew the Chief. I walked out to take some photos as he landed. He landed and when rolling out, the engine stopped. He said it died when he turned off the carb heat. We knew he had plenty of fuel, but decided it had to be carb heat or fuel related. We pushed her over to the fuel pumps and he put in 9.5 gallons. Since it’s a 15 gallon tank, that answered that question, so we decided it must have been carb ice.

He took off later and flew back to Kittie Hill, then flew again later with no issues at all.

I fueled up Sunday morning to take a friend flying. We flew over to Burnet to check out their CAF Museum. We landed, got out for about 30 minutes, then we took off and headed over to a lake a few miles away. Just as I reached the lake, I made a comment about how well the engine was running (not kidding!) and how well the Chief flew. At that moment the engine coughed. I immediately pulled carb heat and it smoothed out. I turned back toward Burnet. I tried pushing in the carb heat a few times and each time it was instantly rough. I told my passenger, Mark, that we would probably land at Burnet and call someone to come get us.

My big mistake was when I decided not to land there. I chose instead to fly back to Kittie Hill with the carb heat on the whole way. I climbed to 6,000 feet for insurance and used the GPS to find the nearest private airports I knew were enroute.

When we arrived over Kittie Hill, I explained how slips worked to Mark and told him I was going to spiral down over the field, then slip hard over the trees and put her in. The active runway at Kittie Hill is about 3,000 foot with tall trees on the approach end. It was a good plan, but when I pulled the power back just barely off of full throttle she sputtered and almost died. I think I uttered a word I wouldn’t want my Mother to hear!

I quickly made a decision to fly over to Georgetown where they have a tower and a 5,000+ foot runway. I told Mark there was nothing to worry about, I would descend at full power over a long distance and chop the power and use as much runway as a I needed.

As I crossed the edge of Lake Georgetown, the engine started to sputter again, this time at full throttle and carb heat on. I called the tower and after a few attempts, they finally heard me. I immediately declared an emergency and told them I thought I had carb ice and couldn’t clear it. He immediately cleared me for any runway I wanted and suggested 11 was the closest. I told him I was on a right base for 11 and would try to make it. A few minutes (maybe seconds!) later I told I wasn’t going to make it as I had just lost my engine. It sure gets quiet…

I would later tell Mark the next decision was very tough for me. I could turn away from the airport now and make some fields where we wouldn’t hurt anyone else, but we would probably tear up the plane and ourselves. Heading on toward Georgetown I would have emergency services close by, but if I was wrong about making the runway; I would hit houses and risk other people’s lives. I watched the runway closely and it was staying in the same place, low on the windshield. I decided I could make it after all. I don’t know how far out I was, but when I first made the call I was 5.8 miles out at under 6,000 feet.

Soon, the tower asked me how many souls onboard and how much fuel. I sure hated that question. After what seemed like a long time in silence, I was on short final. I pulled the fuel of and turned off the key since I didn’t want it to start then, and had to slip really hard for what seemed like a long time to get down. I had a perfect landing and then all was quiet. The tower told me I could leave her right there since I wasn’t on the active. I climbed out and sat on the ground. Wow.

What happened? We had a few theories and one turned out to be right. The loose fuel guage was letting air into the tank. The fuel cap was clogged and not letting air in. When we replaced the gauge with new seals, it created an airtight tank, starving the fuel.

Phil had an A&P confirm this. He pulled the fuel line from the carb and fuel ran for awhile, then turned into a trickle. He put on the cap from the auxiliary tank and it ran and didn’t stop. Phil flew her home this morning.

I’ve been a pilot for a long time and around planes my entire life. We all make mistakes, but learn from mine. I passed up a perfect airport and tried to diagnose the problem in the air. I hate that I did that. Things I did right were adding altitude and declaring an emergency. Better to ask for help and not need it than the other way around.

Now the question… where can we get the correct gas cap. The one on it came with the plane when Phil bought it. The previous owner didn’t know he had a problem since the gauge was leaking. We’re told it’s not as simple as using a Cessna gas cap since they only vent one way and we need one that vents in and out. Any ideas?

[MikeB]

I don't know Jack...I think you did everything pretty well. Maybe passing up an airport with a sick engine was a mistake but you seemed to handle the crisis without panic (of course I wasn't in there). Congratulations anyway. That happened to us once when someone made a new main cap gasket that covered the vent holes. Fortunetely we were on the take off roll when it started to die rather than over the lake or power lines. It went "whoof" when I took the cap off to check the fuel level....mystery solved!

I think Wag Aero has the cap and probably the same as the auxilary tank cap. I've often wondered why a small hole couldn't be drilled in the cap to assure a positive vent. I suppose water and dirt could be an issue but no less than putting the forward facing vent tubes on the auxilary tanks.

MikeB

[RRHaldeman]

Jack,
Call American Champion and order a Vented gas cap. Problem solved.

[Flynlow]

Thanks Mike. You're right, I didn't panic. I lost an engine in a 172 when I was a young pilot and panic doesn't help much! I just did what I had to do. I was a little shakey once on the ground though!

I don't know Jack...I think you did everything pretty well. Maybe passing up an airport with a sick engine was a mistake but you seemed to handle the crisis without panic (of course I wasn't in there). Congratulations anyway. That happened to us once when someone made a new main cap gasket that covered the vent holes. Fortunetely we were on the take off roll when it started to die rather than over the lake or power lines. It went "whoof" when I took the cap off to check the fuel level....mystery solved!

I think Wag Aero has the cap and probably the same as the auxilary tank cap. I've often wondered why a small hole couldn't be drilled in the cap to assure a positive vent. I suppose water and dirt could be an issue but no less than putting the forward facing vent tubes on the auxilary tanks.

MikeB

[rkittine]

I had all kinds of issues with venting for the fuel tanks in my Champ and will not bore you with all that happened, you can find it some where else on the forum.

I did have an issue with my Chief with the nose tank and ended up putting a cap on with the float and wire fuel level indicator. That hole with the wire through it seems tight enough to not let water or dirt in, but certainly helps vent the tank.

[Lion8]

Engine out on my Champ. I just bought a Champ this past December. Flew it from Winter Haven Florida enroute to Southern New Jersey. Made 170 mile fuel stops. No issues until we got to Virginia. We (co-pilot and instructor friend), stopped for the night. In the morning, we has a fair amount of crystalized frost all over. During the flight to the overnight top, I noticed that the fuel gauge was draining very slow. At the next fuel stop, I looked the wing tank gas cap over real good, found no issues. We were delayed our departure until it all melted. About an hour or so later we were near Suffolk, Va when the engine went to windmilling speed. We were at 2500ft. approx 2250 RPM. 3 to 5 seconds later, it returned to adjusted speed. Flew for about 5 to 10 seconds then back to windmilling. This happened about three times. My co-pilot who has a bunch of time in a Champ, 5k hours in tail wheel and about 35,000 as ATP. We did all the normal stuff with an engine out, then picked a big field that was flat and clear to put her down. As I got out, I noticed fuel dripping from the lower cowling flare. Had a local A&P come out to check it out. He took the carb home, found nothing wrong with it. No damage to the aircraft. No property damage and no personal injuries.Only loss other than not completing the trip was two new sets of underwear.
Trailered the airplane the rest of the way to N.J. Took the Carb off and had my IA check the carb. found only a little bit of white film on the new needle and seat. He replace the brass float with a new Blue type.
Need a smoking gun.
a. ran fine for two days
b. when engine quit, it came back to life about three times (soggy float would not allow that)
c. gas dripping from cowling.
d. had 1/2 tank of gas in the main tank when we landed.
suspecting tank venting.

[rkittine]

Send me an E-mail to RKittine@aol.com and I will send you an article I wrote a few years back regarding the Fuel Caps, Vented and Non-Vented, fuel line vent and flow. I had some very strange things happening as you did until I reconfigured my entire system.

Assume you tried Carb Heat, not just for possible ice, but for any float issues. My Chief did some strange things when I was in a nose high attitude, but was fine when straight and level. Carb heat though enriched it enough to allow climb out until I had the carb reset, though in every other way it was fine.

Were in South Jersey are you?

Bob

[Cricko]

My Chief has developed a hesitation as I advance the throttle for takeoff. Otherwise runs fine. I’m now going to check my gas cap.

[Richard Murray]

Take a screwdriver and tighten all of the hose clamps on your intake tubes just in case.

[Cricko]

Update:
Had my A&P remove the carb and completely tear it down. It appears that the previous owner had put some sort of exhaust heat tape around the heat muff on the carb heat side. It had been removed before I purchased it, but some fibers remained in the muff, and had been sucked into the carb. This was causing a blockage inside the air passages. We went through the carb and cleaned everything, and removed the muff and air box to thoroughly clean everything out. My Chief now runs better than ever!