Hi all,
New to the Sedan world and have about a million questions on the type. She's #427, has an O-300 A, metal tanks, Cleveland wheels, spar AD complied with (yeah, lots of holes but I don't mind), old Terra digital com and a transponder. Engine has around 850smoh, airplane was restored in 2004 by Sam Cochran in Toledo then sold. Went to New Jersey then to CA and has spent quite a bit of time outside but everything is responding very well to some elbow grease and a coat of wax. Gent by the name fo Ty Sundstrom was the mechanic on the airplane for the past five years and he is the one who responded to my Barnstormers ad. Ty ended up flying the airplane from Visalia to Ann Arbor MI due to my schedule at work and did a fantastic job. Easy to say that the deal would never have happened without him. Good mechanically sound airplane that just needs some light tweaks and cosmetic work here and there.
Did the first flight and 10 landings last Saturday and all went well other than the airplane is really bouncy. Checking now to see if all three shock cords are installed and if so I will be modifying with service letter No.4. Currently the airplane sitting empty with full fuel has a great deal of positive camber to the wheels, hopefully this will be fixed with the service letter.
Here's the current list of near term projects:
1. Shoulder harness, have the brackets from Burl
2. Steve's Aircraft gascilator installation
3. Zeftronics voltage regulator
4. Auto fuel STC
5. Intercom
6. Oil filter
7. A bunch of little hardware items that didn't like being outside!
Now for a few of the promised questions:
1. What style of wheel pants was original to the type and what's the biggest tire you can use with them? Currently
running 7.50x6.0's.
2. Speaking of tires, what does everyone like for pressure? I'm guessing around 18 psi?
3. I'm planning a rework of the interior and Airtex is running a bit over $300 for a headliner, are there any other
sources?
4. Does anyone have anything different on the back seat to go with two individual seat belts instead of the big lap
belt?
There are going to be more but that's what I have right now, any thought's, tips or input would be greatly appreciated. Love the airplane, it's certainly something that I never thought I would have. Dream come true and we are looking forward to being caretakers of a true classic. Many thanks to the folks who helped make this happen, Brian Safran, Mike Hoag, Ty Sundstrom, Gary Wray, and anyone who I have forgotten!
Scott Johnson
N1378H in home!
N1378H in home!
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- En Route
- Sedan at Blakesburg.jpg (211.86 KiB) Viewed 6740 times
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- Elevator before....
- Sedan elevator before.JPG (130.9 KiB) Viewed 6740 times
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- and after.
- Sedan elevator after.JPG (113.72 KiB) Viewed 6740 times
Last edited by skot7ac on Wed May 02, 2012 15:44, edited 1 time in total.
Re: N1378H in home!
update on the shock cords, it currently only has the two installed. They were very recently reaplaced with the Burl recommended type and have about 30 landings on them. Here is a front view shot, just seems like a lot of camber, normal? Sorry, for some reason the pic is posting 180 out and I'm not sure how to fix it.
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- Sedan wheels.JPG (129.26 KiB) Viewed 6740 times
Re: N1378H in home!
Hello Scott
Congratulations on that beauty and welcome to the Sedan family! Looks as if you found a nice and sound airplane that has been well taken care of.
1. The type certificate lists the Consolidair Model 17 wheel fenders under item 211 (see below link). They were made of aluminum and have become really scarce. I found our pair in a classified. It was in need of a major overhaul, came without the attach brackets and sold for $600, back in 2002. Had to have the brackets made, which wasn't cheap either. I have 7.00 x 6 tires. Don't think that larger ones would still fit, but am not sure. I would have to measure, but will probably not get to the hangar for a week or two. Joe might have the answer, right away.
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... E/A802.pdf
2. When I asked Joe and Burl, they both confirmed the Sedan's typical hard landing gear and recommended lowering the tire pressure to somewhere between 18 and 30 psi. In 2010, we had installed new bungee cords (only 2 on each leg). After 105 landings (about 10 of them near max weight) and the tires at 30 psi, they are still stiff and a really smooth landing is a lucky punch. Lowering to 25 psi improves the suspension noticeably, but results in a mushy feeling (sideways) that I personally don't really like. Hence, I haven't tried out 18 psi.
3. I have not heard of another source of Sedan headliners, but know that several owners (or better: their wives) installed self-made ones.
4. I have the single, long lap belt, purchased from Burl. It suits one person, as long as he/she is not of my size. For two, even slim passengers, I would definitely have to use an extension. The advantage of a single belt is that a single person in the back can comfortably slide from one window to the other, without opening the belt. You can tell by the frequency of their shifting, if passengers enjoy a flight: If you constantly need ailerons to compensate for their moving mass, they must obviously be comfortable and enjoying the scenery. If they sit in one and the same corner the entire flight, they are probably bored, just waiting for the landing and the next beer. But if they are glued to the center with a stare straight ahead, they are most likely downright frightened by your airmanship.
Of course, the disadvantage of a single belt securing two passengers is that their heads are bound to bang together in an accident.
Hope, this helps. Other, longer time Sedan owners, will certainly have other opinions, though...
Please bring N1378H to Middletown, so I can take pictures of it for our website's Sedan gallery!
Matt
Congratulations on that beauty and welcome to the Sedan family! Looks as if you found a nice and sound airplane that has been well taken care of.
1. The type certificate lists the Consolidair Model 17 wheel fenders under item 211 (see below link). They were made of aluminum and have become really scarce. I found our pair in a classified. It was in need of a major overhaul, came without the attach brackets and sold for $600, back in 2002. Had to have the brackets made, which wasn't cheap either. I have 7.00 x 6 tires. Don't think that larger ones would still fit, but am not sure. I would have to measure, but will probably not get to the hangar for a week or two. Joe might have the answer, right away.
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... E/A802.pdf
2. When I asked Joe and Burl, they both confirmed the Sedan's typical hard landing gear and recommended lowering the tire pressure to somewhere between 18 and 30 psi. In 2010, we had installed new bungee cords (only 2 on each leg). After 105 landings (about 10 of them near max weight) and the tires at 30 psi, they are still stiff and a really smooth landing is a lucky punch. Lowering to 25 psi improves the suspension noticeably, but results in a mushy feeling (sideways) that I personally don't really like. Hence, I haven't tried out 18 psi.
3. I have not heard of another source of Sedan headliners, but know that several owners (or better: their wives) installed self-made ones.
4. I have the single, long lap belt, purchased from Burl. It suits one person, as long as he/she is not of my size. For two, even slim passengers, I would definitely have to use an extension. The advantage of a single belt is that a single person in the back can comfortably slide from one window to the other, without opening the belt. You can tell by the frequency of their shifting, if passengers enjoy a flight: If you constantly need ailerons to compensate for their moving mass, they must obviously be comfortable and enjoying the scenery. If they sit in one and the same corner the entire flight, they are probably bored, just waiting for the landing and the next beer. But if they are glued to the center with a stare straight ahead, they are most likely downright frightened by your airmanship.
Of course, the disadvantage of a single belt securing two passengers is that their heads are bound to bang together in an accident.Hope, this helps. Other, longer time Sedan owners, will certainly have other opinions, though...
Please bring N1378H to Middletown, so I can take pictures of it for our website's Sedan gallery!
Matt
Aeronca 15AC Sedan – Restoring and flying the classic 4-seater: http://www.n1331h.com
Re: N1378H in home!
Scott
The width of your landing gear looks normal to me, maybe just a tad too narrow. The reasons for this could be that the main landing gear stops are worn or otherwise defective (Page 61 of the Parts Catalog, Ref. No. 27-29, P/N 1-3669) or that their support brackets are bent/compressed, which was the case on our plane (Page 61, Ref. No. 27-33). The attached picture is of N1331H. We corrected the bent brackets and installed brand new stops in 2010. Still, I'd say, it doesn't look any different than yours, what do you think? ()
Matt
P.S. Your upside down picture appears perfectly right side up on my iPhone.
The width of your landing gear looks normal to me, maybe just a tad too narrow. The reasons for this could be that the main landing gear stops are worn or otherwise defective (Page 61 of the Parts Catalog, Ref. No. 27-29, P/N 1-3669) or that their support brackets are bent/compressed, which was the case on our plane (Page 61, Ref. No. 27-33). The attached picture is of N1331H. We corrected the bent brackets and installed brand new stops in 2010. Still, I'd say, it doesn't look any different than yours, what do you think? ()
Matt
P.S. Your upside down picture appears perfectly right side up on my iPhone.
Last edited by Matt on Fri May 04, 2012 00:09, edited 1 time in total.
Aeronca 15AC Sedan – Restoring and flying the classic 4-seater: http://www.n1331h.com
Re: N1378H in home!
Hi
You will really learn to love sedan. I have two of them unfortunately both are not flying right now. On the bright side one of them is just about ready for fabric with almost all new parts including a new fuselage made by Burl. I would almost always wheel land the sedan, you can fly it onto the ground with a minimum rate of descent and get a super smooth landing. The only time I would do a full stall landing was on a very short strip. Even then after some practice I felt could land just as short with a wheel landing. With a wheel landing I felt I had better control and I could transition out of a slip and into a landing much closer to the ground. Knowing how to Slip the sedan is mandatory in my opinion. I think proper speed control is very important in making a good full stall landing. Improper speed control with all that wing area and subsequent drag can make for some interesting landings. The lack of flaps may make the sedan a bit more of a challenge, but this is very easily overcome with good slip technique. I also have a set of original wheel pants and brackets that I would be interested in selling. One of them is in good shape the other one needs work, the front of it is crushed. The brackets are in good shape. I can send you photos if your interested.
Tom
You will really learn to love sedan. I have two of them unfortunately both are not flying right now. On the bright side one of them is just about ready for fabric with almost all new parts including a new fuselage made by Burl. I would almost always wheel land the sedan, you can fly it onto the ground with a minimum rate of descent and get a super smooth landing. The only time I would do a full stall landing was on a very short strip. Even then after some practice I felt could land just as short with a wheel landing. With a wheel landing I felt I had better control and I could transition out of a slip and into a landing much closer to the ground. Knowing how to Slip the sedan is mandatory in my opinion. I think proper speed control is very important in making a good full stall landing. Improper speed control with all that wing area and subsequent drag can make for some interesting landings. The lack of flaps may make the sedan a bit more of a challenge, but this is very easily overcome with good slip technique. I also have a set of original wheel pants and brackets that I would be interested in selling. One of them is in good shape the other one needs work, the front of it is crushed. The brackets are in good shape. I can send you photos if your interested.
Tom
Re: N1378H in home!
Scott,
Great to see you here and beautiful pics of the Sedan.
I do have some info on the wheel pants and mounting hardware. If Tom has an extra set, grab them fast as like Matt says, they are somewhat rare.
I run 18-19 psi in the mains and it works fine. Make sure you have a good 45 min in the tailwheel if its a 3200 to keep the tire from rolling off.
More later, have to run!
Joe A
Great to see you here and beautiful pics of the Sedan.
I do have some info on the wheel pants and mounting hardware. If Tom has an extra set, grab them fast as like Matt says, they are somewhat rare.
I run 18-19 psi in the mains and it works fine. Make sure you have a good 45 min in the tailwheel if its a 3200 to keep the tire from rolling off.
More later, have to run!
Joe A
Re: N1378H in home!
Tom I would be very interested in the wheel pants, just sent you a pm with my email info. Got much better results with 20 psi. Still working out a long list of small squawks but it's going well. Did get a coat of wax on the rest of the fuselage and it's looking pretty good. Appreciate all of the input from everyone, it's a huge help.
Re: N1378H in home!
Tom,49_sedan wrote:Hi
I would almost always wheel land the sedan, you can fly it onto the ground with a minimum rate of descent and get a super smooth landing. The only time I would do a full stall landing was on a very short strip. Even then after some practice I felt could land just as short with a wheel landing. With a wheel landing I felt I had better control and I could transition out of a slip and into a landing much closer to the ground.
Tom
What speed do you use for final and touchdown? Am still trying to master wheel landings in the Sedan...
Joe A
Re: N1378H in home!
Hi Joe
I would start with 60 on final, "cross the fence" at 55 and aim for about 50 on touchdown. Anything much faster on touchdown and you will float forever as you get into ground effect. You could even lower these numbers at bit if you are light(less than 1700 lbs. GW) and the winds are not strong. The Sedan will sink like a rock if you get it to slow and don't add power and it will float forever if not slowed on approach/landing. It will require holding the nose higher on approach than most aircraft do to the lack of flaps. If you are to high on approach don't lower the nose either slip or if you are not to high try increasing the pitch angle angle to slow to 55-52 it will increase your sink rate. Just remember to lower the nose back to 60 as you are approaching the glideslope.
I would start with 60 on final, "cross the fence" at 55 and aim for about 50 on touchdown. Anything much faster on touchdown and you will float forever as you get into ground effect. You could even lower these numbers at bit if you are light(less than 1700 lbs. GW) and the winds are not strong. The Sedan will sink like a rock if you get it to slow and don't add power and it will float forever if not slowed on approach/landing. It will require holding the nose higher on approach than most aircraft do to the lack of flaps. If you are to high on approach don't lower the nose either slip or if you are not to high try increasing the pitch angle angle to slow to 55-52 it will increase your sink rate. Just remember to lower the nose back to 60 as you are approaching the glideslope.
Re: N1378H in home!
Thanks, will try those speeds. Was going about 10 faster than you recommended...