Engine Preheat for A 65

[EDGEFLY]

As I investigated the potential application of an EZ-heat unit for my 65 horse Chief, received the following information from the
vendor:

*The heating system is designed to shut off when the sensor reaches 165 deg F
*The heater is also designed with a failsafe buit in independent of the sensor so that the highest achievable temperature (model 270) is 180 deg F.
*Oil Carbonbization does not begin to take place until 300-330 deg F.
*The unit can be left on indefinitely, but they do not recommend this if you fly less than once a week reasoning that on cold engines the oil sticks to the metal longer, if you heat it up, the whole engine is warm and any residual will fall to the pan again.

This information was provided for the model 270 which is what I asked for. The recommended application for my chief is a model 360 but, I believe the same numbers/rationale would apply to this model as well.

Just provided for info.

Dale

[Richard Murray]

For what its worth, memory serves that the engine is pre-heated better it you blow warm air over the cylinders and heat the whole engine. I think Mike Busch touched on the subject in one of his webinars for EAA in the past six months. The idea is that the oil is warm, but the rest of the engine is cold promoting excessive wear.

I have a friend who bought a small forced air heater that runs off of propane at one of the local Menards/Lowes/Home Depot stores and a Y with scat hose directs the air into the inlets at the front of the cowl. Takes about 10 to 15 minutes in 20 degree weather and you are ready to fly. I've used a larger salamander running off of kerosene and accomplished the same result.

[dikholder]

Most of my light plane flying has been in the Fairbanks AK area over the last 30 years. The simplest and cheapest heater that I am aware of is just an electric unit for heating automotive interiors in extreme cold weather. Its called the little buddy and is sold by NAPA and other auto stores for around $100. It is a 900Wat electic heating element with a built in fan . You can just put it inside your cowling , the lower the better, and plug it in and let it cook. Bout one hour for each ten degrees below freezing. When you are ready to go take it out and unplug it and away you go. Only drawback is the requirement for electricity, but a real small generator will run one. Other people without electric outlet available will use Red Dragons or similar propane heaters. I also know people who have made homeade heaters using a piece of stovepipe and a sterno can. All seem to work. Hope these ideas are helpful.

Dik

[RRHaldeman]

The oil sump in my Champ is directly below the engine. IF you wrap the engine compartment with a good insulated blanket, and leave the oil pan heater on overnight, the entire engine will be as warm as the oil. I have an EZ heat on my Champ and I have used the same on my Skylane for over 12 years. It is an effective and inexpensive solution. Just carry the insulated blanket and an extension cord on trips.

I used to use a propane heater but you need electric and propane if you are on a trip. Not a good solution, on my opinion.

[bwmatz]

I had a glue-on electric oil sump heater on my A-65. During the overhaul of my engine, Bill Pancake found that my front main bearing was severely corroded, and he attributed it to electrolysis caused by the sump heater. He recommends only external heat to preheat and never the use of anything electrical attached directly to the engine.

[EDGEFLY]

Brian,

What was the typical schedule for use of the engine heater ? Did you leave it on continuously during cold weather ? Dick Haldeman reported earlier that he has used an EZ-heat on his Skylane for 12 years and apparently had no problem. In any event, your post was just minutes after I had placed an order for the EZ-Heat 360 which is the vendor recommended model for a 65 horse Chief. I'll certainly use it on a more limited basis due to your input.

Dale

[Nathan K. Hammond]

The issue is condensation. When the engine is kept warm in cold weather, it will naturally create water. This is not an issue if you fly regularly (at least once a week) because at operating temp, the water will boil out. People run into problems when they plug in the airplane and don't fly but once a month. Even worse if you live in a cool, moist climate.

In Kentucky, winters are 30*F and rain for about 3 months; leaving a heater and not flying, can result in rusty cylinders and oil filler neck.

Keep in mind, running the engine on the ground for 15 minutes to "stir the oil and coat everything" does more harm than good. You will only mix the condensation into the oil and splashed water over ALL the internal parts. The only way to remove the water vapor is to run the engine at operating temps and conditions i.e. flying; or install dehydrator plugs and pads in the engine.

Personally, I start the preheat the day before. If I don't fly, and it doesn't look I'll fly within the next 2-3 days, I'll shut off the heat.

nkh

[Richard Murray]

FYI I stumbled across this Service Information Letter from Continental

http://www.tcmlink.com/pdf2/SIL03-1.pdf

[MikeB]

When I had my Cherokee 140 with the 0320 Lycoming I could always get the oil temperature up to 180 degrees even in the coldest weather. Especially if I blocked the oil cooler off. On my L16 with the 0200 conversion I'm lucky if I see 160 degrees if the ambient temperature is 40 degrees or so. I have the oval nose opening covered and the lower outlet partly blocked off per the L16 manual. Also, when I shut it down I see a lot of 'snot' and moisture coming out of the breather tube so I know it's not vaporizing the water. I do have cylinder temperature gauges installed on the back two cylinders and usually see somewhere around 350 degrees when cruising. Oil pressure runs close to 60 psi. Although I know others do it I'm not a fan of partly blocking the 'bug eyes' as I'm worried about over heating the cylinders and not catching it.

With my A65 Champ it tended to run 140-150 degrees in cold weather which I kind of expected as they don't burn a lot of fuel. I assumed I would have problems with high oil temperature when I went with this conversion but it hasn't happened even though the fuel burn is much higher.

Besides that: my toes get cold .

Mike

[EDGEFLY]

Dick,

That was excellent input from Continental. I wonder if anyone here has the swing with Continental to ask them if their input regarding "engine-mounted preheaters" meant or applies to the EZ-heat type unit or if they had reference to some other type of system ? This was a 2003 document, maybe they have an updated view for owners.

Dale

[jc pacquin]

Some people preheat if its under fourty. This is probably a good idea for these little OLD engines. Some say lower, like 35 degrees, etc. My problem always was wanting to fly but snow on the ground, too cold, or windy. (I never liked to fly in real turbulent air, no fun.) or just not in the mood. So....the airplane just sat, sometimes for a month. I was told NEVER just pull it through a few times and leave it as this takes oil off the cylinder walls. It sounds like the heater you purchased is a good bet. Bill Pancake sure knows his stuff and these pilots in Alaska should be a wealth of info! They really know what cold is! My Dad had a 40 Ford sedan when I was young, he put a hundred watt light bulb under the hood and an old blanket over the hood. Probably not a great idea but it worked ( near Buffalo) . Good Luck! JP

[RRHaldeman]

Addendum to my previous post.

Just to be clear, I plug in the oil pan heater the night, or afternoon, prior to the flight. I do not leave it on continuously for the reasons expressed in the Continental bulletin. So long as you use a well-insulated blanket, the engine block and cylinders will be as warm as the oil. Of course, it would be best if you followed the Continental bulletin exactly, by adding cylinder heating rings, etc. but in my experience in northern Illinois, that would be overkill.

[EDGEFLY]

Well, I went the route recommended and it didn't work out to well. As I went thru the selection process, I found that for EZHeat devices, the model 270 was recommended for my Chief with the 65 horse engine. a couple of weeks later, I bought the heater from a catalog vendor who said the "newly recommended model of E Z Heater was the model 360. So I went ahead and bought a 360. After flying the aircraft and strictly following installation instructions (including some special tips for cold weather installation by E Z Heat), I tried to install the heater pad and found that the solid pad which contains the thermostat and some immediately nearby portions of the pad did not adhere well to the sump. I left it to rest for 24 hours and reinspected. Same deal. After some discussion, the comment was made was made "that's an Aeronca Chief with the 0200 engine ,right?" I corrected that (It's an A-65), the E Z Heat representative suggested that I consider the model 270 which has the same heat performance in a different shape. They sent me a sketch so that I could try it on my sump and offered to replace the 360 if it looked better. It did and the 270 is presumably on its' way to me now. I recommend that you carefully find out what shape of heater best fits your oil sump before you buy. I should have my engine preheater installed in plenty of time for the freezing weather in June !
E Z Heat has been very cooperative in handling this matter.

Dale