Seat Belts/heel brakes

[MikeB]

OK....I have around 200 hours in my Champ and starting to feel comfortable enough in it that I want to be checked out to fly from the rear seat (never flew a J-3 ). All my other time is in nose wheels. So today my CFI friend sat in front and was going to check me out. Everything went fine except I can't get my feet on both the rudder pedals and the rear heel brakes at the same time as the seat belt anchors get in the way of my foot when I want to use the brakes. I tried rerouting the anchors to the inside of the seat frame, but that doesn't seem like a good way to route the belts either. Maybe that's just the way they are, but I wasn't comfortable with the situation. Plus, I have the lovely Goodyear brakes and they take a lot of "pushing". I don't use the brakes much, but you never know when you might need a tap now or then on roll out or turning.

Someone must have ran into this who has bigger feet than my number 10's.

Thanks........Mike.

[Ron Babos]

Mike: I noticed the same thing when sitting in the back seat the other day. The feet get jammed, and even though I have hyraulics, it's still a pain. Just thinking out loud here but seems like the only solution is to take your flying boots over to the belt sander and thin them out, or maybe move the belt anchors to the inside of the bracket. Too cramped for my liking as it is.
Ron

[Captgrumps]

You must remember that when these airplanes were designed the pilots weighed 155 pounds or less and their feet were size 7. The champ was not designed to be primarily flown from the back seat like a J-3 Cub. All due to the CG and weight and balance.
The J-3 flown from the back seat (normal solo position) is pretty much the same way. Tight shoe fit, especially for the brakes. But when flying off grass you hardly use the brakes if not at all, except runup. When I fly ours I make sure I wear my J-3 flying shoes--not a place for clod hoppers--not all shoe types fit. Family have a J-3 in addition to a PreWar Chief. Still looking for Chief control wheel.

Doug

[MikeB]

Or I suppose I could get a pair of the ballet dancing shoes (that would go over big with the local red necks ). I'm thinking I need to figure out some way to move the anchors to the inside without putting undue strain and wear on them. For some reason our other Champ doesn't seem to have the problem, but maybe there's a difference in the anchors. Need to do a little more study, I guess. It wouldn't take much and I didn't have a lot of time to work on it yesterday. (This is a new seat belt and shoulder harness system).

Mike

[jc pacquin]

Mike...,I have never flown an aeronca from the back seat. Flew cubs quite a bit but didn't buy one as my last airplane as its like flying in a tennis can. I ALWAYS wear sneakers. In other shoes I have had foot slip off brakes...once in the Stearman which almost nipped me and in the taylorcraft too. In the Aeronca, sneakers give me good purchase on the heel brakes when I run out of rudder effect on landing...just a tap does the trick.

[pablo]

mike:

I had the same problem. Then I realized that in the 40's the only available tennis shoes were very narrow. Look at the pictures of pilots at that time and none is wearing tennis shoes: cowboy boots? maybe. Since then, I never fly with those bulky, expensive, endorsed by famous athletes tennis shoes, from the back. No problems, any more. I am looking forward to try cowboy boots, but I have not found any for less than $10 a pair (no even on E-bay). Have fun!!
Pablo

[MikeB]

Right! When I was growing up in the 1940-50's we had PF Flyers. Used to have a pair of cowboy boots (but no horse ). Actually, I'm pretty close to the typical described person 5'9" and 160#, but guess I have big feet (size 10).

Seriously though, the reason I want to get comfortable flying from the back seat is that my old flying partner has developed Parkinson's and it's very difficult for him to get in and out of the rear seat (nothing to grab on to) Plus he weighs more than 220# and it's better having him in the front for weight and balance purposes. We've spent a lot of flying time over the years and, while he doesn't have a license any more, he still likes a ride every now and then.

[Nathan K. Hammond]

I jumped into the backseat tonight while me and the bride went putting around. I didn't notice too much difficulty getting to the brakes, even with my size 11 1/2's. I did have just a little aukwardness getting both brakes pushed hard enough to do a run up. But thats because I couldn't get my toes pointed up high enough and was hitting the rudder peddles.

The good news, I've always been able to get to the peddles when needed. Twice I've had the front seater let the plane get loose on takeoff/landing, but I could always press hard enough to get past the belt anchor and gludious maximus. So don't worry about getting snagged when going for the peddles, self preservation has a lot to do with it.

When flying the Cub with a large bottomed person, I have to keep my feet pointed straight and use my toes.

It all comes down to all airplanes (and seats) are different. None better, none worse.

nkh

[Jon B.]

I want very much to get comfortable flying from the rear. I think the front seat is much better for visibility for an inexperienced or first-time passenger. Or as someone mentioned, an extra-heavy one. I'm around 190 or so. With someone heavier than I am in back, the tail gets really heavy.

I'd like to take my mom & dad for rides. They're 79 and 80 years old. The only time they've been in the front seat was when my brother and I bought them an hour each in a 7CCM float plane. The owner/instructor had them sit in front and do the flying while he coached and assisted. Big smiles that day!

My shoes are size 13. I haven't tried to get a feel for the brakes and rudders from the rear. I think I'd better try it before the Champ sells!

Jon B.

[joea]

Tsk, tsk, tsk...

Us Chief and Sedan owners do not have this problem!

Joe A

(Flak vest on!)

[gusc]

Although I used to let all my sailplane passengers sit in the front because the rear is a dark hole, the Champ rear is not like that when it is in level flight.

I will put all my passengers in the rear of the Champ although I like to solo from the rear. I believe that passengers, especially first timers, like the reassuring sight of the pilot fitting in front of them.

However, if someone asks to ride in front I have no problem with that. After so many years instructing it doesn't make a lot of difference which seat I use anymore.

Side-by-side is much better, especially if the passenger is a sweet smelling female.

[joea]

Why do you think I bought a Chief?? Sure is a lot better to have a nice lady next to you during flights!

JOe A

[nowlen]

seems that i'vd said that before.

[gusc]

I decided to get a Chief or Champ, whichever one I found first and the Chanp was first. I looked at a few Chiefs but never found the one I wanted.

[nowlen]

thats because the chief will humble even the worlds greatest aviators. es a champ is a boxer and as paul harvey would say, a chief is....... well........ a chief!!!!!!!