7ac-7dc

[mike newall]

STOP !!!!

Before you spend money tearing into structure - read the service letter that converts the airplane from a 7AC to a 7BCM with the C-85 engine.

The conversion is simple, you take off the A-65, put on the C-85, new exhaust, smack a dent in the bottom of the tank if needed - most have a 'sump dent' already, check the prop - it may need shortening - yes - shortening. No dorsal, no firewall reinforcing, no fuss.

Forget the starter, forget the generator - fly for fun on what I still think is the best combination of engine and airframe.

Now, if you can only get a -12 engine, you may need to find an STC or a replacement acc case. We don't have that problem here in the UK, one of the few area where we score over the US, because our Champs are on effectively an experimental category. If you do get a -12 and sort out the STC, a blank plate on the starter works and you could now put a lightweight B & C alternator on which would give you 8 amps - plenty for a radio/GPS.

[joea]

Mike,

Agree with you except for putting the generator on the plane. If the plane does not have a generator, its a plain jane normal Aeronca. Due to the new security regulations, once any plane has an engine driven generator you are forced to put a transponder and radio on the plane, a $2000 or more mod that most of us just do not want.

You can put the B&C starter on any aircraft with a normal battery. Use it to start the plane then charge it every few flights. I know of quite a few people doing this and are very happy with it.

Joe A

[7ECjim]

Joe
When was that rule of a plane having a generator will have to have a transponder and radio? I wonder how they would make sure they are turned on or just not used.
Jim

[WWhunter]

It seems I read or heard something to that affect also. My 115HP 7AC has a starter (just replaced it with a Skytec) but no generator. The mechanic was just here yesterday discussing putting one on it but if I am required to put in a radio and transponder I will do without the gen/alt. It hasn't had one on it before so I guess I can just keep using the solar panel/trikle charger to avoid the hassle. I also don't care for using a radio. Plus up here in my neck of the woods there aren't many places you need one anyways.
Keith

[7GC]

Where's the rule that any plane with a generator has to have a transponder?

[Captgrumps]

If it has an electrical system and flys in controlled airspace it should have a transponder and two way radio--Check FAR 91 There are various parts of 91 that refer to airspace. Basically unless you are out in the country and only go to uncontrolled airports you don't need a transponder and two communications--but don't tread into any controlled airspace. Read the regulaltions if you live around airports with towers and especially Class B airspace with its wedding cake levels.

Doug

[Paul Agaliotis]

I read the FAR as, if the aircraft was originaly certified with an electrical system, as required equiptment, the transponder is required. Many light planes had electrical as optional equiptment and do not require the added gear. As Doug points out some radio gear is required for your specific operations.
Paul

[joea]

Someone on the fAA email list is more awake than I am! I asked them over there and received the following answer. Was wrong on the radio but correct on the x-ponder.

__________________________________________________________

Perhaps Joe's belief relates to the requirements for flight in the "Mode C
veil" surrounding Class B airspace. For operation there, for aircraft with
an engine driven generator, a transponder and encoder is required.

A radio is not. I have a friend with a Pitts that has a transponder but no radio and is based at KFDK, just outside of the Washington ADIZ and class B, but within the 30 mile radius "Mode C veil."

I can operate in that same space without a transponder because my Chief has no generator. I do use a hand-held radio, but it is not required.


John
www.hangar9aeroworks.com

[MikeB]

The exact reason I sold my Cherokee and kept the Champ: no radio, no transponder, no two year certification for the transponder. Bought a radio/transponder package and they went out of business. Other radio the frequency was too close and bled into other channels, declared obsolete. It's amazing that for the initial price and the repair cost that the nav coms are so unreliable. My other beef was when you sent them in for repair (1) either is wasn't repaired correctly (2) couldn't locate parts (3) it took several months to get them back.

Love my little non-electric Champ and handheld which for $250 works just fine and while I haven't done it, my understanding is that I can fly into a outlying airport near the Twin Cities (Minneapolis/St. Paul) as long as I stay under the 'wedding cake'.

Mike

[joea]

Mike K just posted the below on the fAA email list.

Paragraph 5 is the one that bites us on the rear.
_______________________________

Looking at 91.215 if you add the engine driven generator/alternator you are required to install a operating transponder not just if you are flying in the 30 vail. but for all airspace listed in 1-5.
mikek

_______________________________

Joe,
Do not have (hard copy) of far's here at work but from FAA site so far got this on transponder:
Sec. 91.215

ATC transponder and altitude reporting equipment and use.

(a) All airspace: U.S.-registered civil aircraft. For operations not conducted under [part 121 or 135] of this chapter, ATC transponder equipment installed must meet the performance and environmental requirements of any class of TSO-C74b (Mode A) or any class of TSO-C74c (Mode A with altitude reporting capability) as appropriate, or the appropriate class of
TSO-C112 (Mode S).
(b) All airspace. Unless otherwise authorized or directed by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft in the airspace described in paragraphs (b)(1) through (b)(5) of this section, unless that aircraft is equipped with an operable coded radar beacon transponder having either Mode 3/A 4096 code capability, replying to Mode 3/A interrogations with the code specified by ATC, or a Mode S capability, replying to Mode 3/A interrogations with the code specified by ATC and intermode and Mode S interrogations in accordance with the applicable provisions specified in TSO C-112, and that aircraft is equipped with automatic pressure altitude reporting equipment having a Mode C capability that automatically replies to Mode C interrogations by transmitting pressure altitude information in 100-foot increments. This requirement applies--
(1) All aircraft. In Class A, Class B, and Class C airspace areas;
(2) All aircraft. In all airspace within 30 nautical miles of an airport listed in appendix D, section 1 of this part from the surface upward to 10,000 feet MSL;
(3) Notwithstanding paragraph (b)(2) of this section, any aircraft which was not originally certificated with an engine-driven electrical system or which has not subsequently been certified with such a system installed, balloon or glider may conduct operations in the airspace within 30 nautical miles of an airport listed in appendix D, section 1 of this part provided such operations are conducted--
(i) Outside any Class A, Class B, or Class C airspace area; and
(ii) Below the altitude of the ceiling of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport or 10,000 feet MSL, whichever is lower; and
(4) All aircraft in all airspace above the ceiling and within the lateral boundaries of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport upward to 10,000 feet MSL; and
(5) All aircraft except any aircraft which was not originally certificated with an engine-driven electrical system or which has not subsequently been certified with such a system installed, balloon, or glider----
(i) In all airspace of the 48 contiguous states and the District of Columbia at and above 10,000 feet MSL, excluding the airspace at and below 2,500 feet above the surface; and
(ii) In the airspace from the surface to 10,000 feet MSL within a 10-nautical-mile radius of any airport listed in appendix D, section 2 of this part, excluding the airspace below 1,200 feet outside of the lateral boundaries of the surface area of the airspace designated for that airport.
(c) Transponder-on operation. While in the airspace as specified in paragraph (b) of this section or in all controlled airspace, each person operating an aircraft equipped with an operable ATC transponder maintained in accordance with Sec. 91.413 of this part shall operate the transponder, including Mode C equipment if installed, and shall reply on the appropriate code or as assigned by ATC.
(d) ATC authorized deviations. Requests for ATC authorized deviations must be made to the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the concerned airspace within the time periods specified as follows:
(1) For operation of an aircraft with an operating transponder but without operating automatic pressure altitude reporting equipment having a Mode C capability, the request may be made at any time.
(2) For operation of an aircraft with an inoperative transponder to the airport of ultimate destination, including any intermediate stops, or to proceed to a place where suitable repairs can be made or both, the request may be made at any time.
(3) For operation of an aircraft that is not equipped with a transponder, the request must be made at least one hour before the proposed operation.

> > > I thought that if an airplane has a generator that its mandatory that it also has a radio > and x-ponder. > > Several people I have talked with have talked about adding a genny to a -12 engine > and I always thought that if this was done that you had no choice but to then install > an avionics package. > > Is this true and if so where it it mandated? > > Thx, > > Joe A >
_______________________________________________

> Aeronca mailing list > Aeronca@westmont.edu > http://mail.westmont.edu/mailman/listinfo/aeronca >

Mike Knemeyer

[Mnflyer]

Hi I have a hard time with the Government gobble gook but it looks to me that you can stay below 2500 ft above the ground with out a transponder as long as your in uncontrolled airspace, any way thats the way I'm doing it. If I were to install the transponder I have theirs no one anywhere near me to see it unless I went up to 10,000 ft and thats not going to happen anytime soon.

[Paul Agaliotis]

The FAR,s are so much fun to try and figure out what they mean.
This edict applies to engine driven systems, so that would imply that wind driven generators are exempt.
Also the FAR refers to an electrical system. A system includes a storage unit, generation device, users, and associated wiring. If any one of the items were not installed it is not considered a system.
Last item would be the certification of a retrofit electrical system. If its installed per a STC, the STC holder certified the engineering and installation proceedures. If the installation was via a 337 form is the certification criteria met for 91.215 to require compliance?
Kinda tough for a grease monkey to figure out. Welcome to my world.
Paul

[7ECjim]

Ok, If you have a transponder in the plane how do they know if you use it or not? I had a problem once flying into a class C international airport. The King transponder in the plane may have been on the blink. Atc came back to me and said I was not sqwaking the right numbers. I looked at the numbers showing on the dials and confirmed I was on the numbers they gave me.I am at the point to be handed off to the tower by now.Atc was working with me and had me on radar and I was in a lot of turbelence bouncin all over the sky.Atc asked me the sqwak code showing again and change to another code.When I was turning the knob the plane went whomp! and the knob was now in my hand.Well atc was very good in working with me and let me go on in and land.Well I had to fly out and leaving was easy also.I was able to have them use what ever my transponder was sqwaking at the time.
Then I had it fixed and needed to have the two year cert done. The only place that does it around my parts is at that same class C airport. I called the tower on the phone and told them my deal. They told me they do not police the two year transponder check and took my tail number down and said to come on in and if it had a problem they would work with me.
Now tell me would this work down at Seatec or Lax ? If you do not plan on flying in a towered airport and have a plane that has an elecric system like my 7EC ,who will police if it has a transponder or not? If I plan on never going out of E airspace. Jim

[Roger Anderson]

Unless, something very recently has changed, there is no requirement to have a transponder in any aircraft unless you wish to operate that aircraft in the airspace requiring a transponder. That airspace is the specific ones such as C, B, mode C veil (if your aircraft has an electrical system), etc. Generally for for most class E and even into class D a transponder isn't required. If you do have a transponder, it is required to be checked every two years. No, ATC doesnt' check that and really doesn't care. However, it would be part of an annual inspection to insure the requirement has been met. Yes. if you have a transponder installed, it must be turned on when flying. roger

[jc pacquin]

Whatever is required....if one is flying out of fredrick maryland, 3 min away from camp david airspace amd very close to bush's private airspace...(Balt.Wash) then regardless of WHAT IS REQUIRED, your damn stupid not to have a working transponder and radio. The penaltys are grim. ONE mistep and you are forced to the ground, they land behind you and take your license. (Usually a blackhawk helicopter) There is no excuse, no questions, they simply take it and you must have someone come get the airplane. An AWACS constantly monitors this area 24-7. Getting your ticket back is a long, drawnout process. It is a BUSY area and wandering around with a handheld, no gps is asking for big trouble, regardless OF ALTITUDE. In western N.Y. state...no problem. Tincan with string will do.