Dihedral and Struts

Ron Babos · Post by **Ron Babos** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 19:54

Speeking of dihedral, ever look at how much a Champ has compared to say, a Cub. Why does it need to be so excessive. Would the wing not perform better with less? I know what the intent of dihedral is for, but there does not seem to be any difference in stabilty compared to the J3 or PA11 that I've flown.
Ron

gusc · Post by **gusc** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 23:13

Ron,

A Champ has only 2*of dihedral, what does a J-3 have? I think my Navion had 3.5* and the Stinson was close, one reason they both are so slow but wonderfully stable.

J-3s and Champs are only relatively stable, the wings are so lightly loaded that they get bounced around by every moving bit of air so they just seem unstable. I don't think a TCraft BC12D has any dihedral and it is really bouncy. It is also the fastest 65 hp around, dihedral costs speed.

gusc · Post by **gusc** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 21:23

I did some more measuring today and found the left front strut is one degree steeper than the right. This explains the reason for the right wind droop. The droop is not in the LG, I measured that carefully from the ground to the bottom of the shock bolts and the shocks are almost exactly the same extensions. So, this leaves the right fuselage strut mount as the only thing left that could cause wing droop and the shallower strut angle bears this out.

Not much I can do about this except to live with it!

I also found that the tail post has a slight curve in the last 8" at the bottom. Not too surprising after all the other things I have found.

I was disappointed to find that the airframe tube sizes are not shown in the Aeronca Manual, only part numbers. My Stinson had all these dimensions and it was a great help.

Is a Champ Parts Catalog available anywhere? I've never found one mentioned anywhere.

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 22:28

Gus,
I have a copy of the orginal Aeronca drawings. It's quite large, probably 4' X 10', that I can send you. Has all the tube demensions and locations, etc.
Bill Pancake was kind enough to send me his 'loaner' copy (which I copied) and I can certainly loan mine to you if it will help you out. Contact me off list with your address etc. and I'll send it to you.

Mike

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:42

Gus,

IF it is OK with Mike, I too would like to have a copy of the prints. I have a friend who may have the capability to copy the prints. I'll check with him.

Dennis

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:56

Dennis,
I was getting ready to send my spare drawing to Gus, but he said he has no way to copy them. I think my copies cost around $8.00 each. I can send you one if you want to try to have it copied. As I described above, it's large so it would pretty much take someone who has the capabilities of copying large industrial blue prints.

Mike Berg

Post by **joea** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 16:12

Mike,

How about Kinko's? Can they copy something that large?

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 21:25

I haven't tried them, but someone told me they couldn't. I just happened to have a source locally that could. I'll ask next time I'm in Eau Claire.

Mike

gusc · Post by **gusc** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 22:22

Mike,

Standby on that offer. Dennis lives a short distance from me and in his post he said he might be able to get it done. Maybe we can get two done at the same time.

If he can get it done please send it to him directly and I'll pick up mine from him.

Thanks,

Post by **joea** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 08:55

Believe that there is a gent on the fAA email list who can duplicate things this large.

If you guys have problems finding someone, please let me know.

Joe

Mikek · Post by **Mikek** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 09:53

mikeberg/wi wrote:I haven't tried them, but someone told me they couldn't. I just happened to have a source locally that could. I'll ask next time I'm in Eau Claire.

Mike

We have a copier that can do 36 in x 10 ft and several blue print shops
that can it I would be happy to get a few copies for you and keep one for me

Mike Knemeyer
Dayton Machine Tool Company
1314 Webster Street
Dayton, Ohio 45404

937-684-5998 cell
mknemeyer@erinet.com

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 13:35

Mike K.
I think the print is 10' X 3'. Since you have access to a large copier and I don't, I can send my spare copy to you and you can be the "keeper of the print". That way if anyone wants or needs a copy they can contact you.

It's a bit of a hassle for me as it usually calls for making two trips to Eau Claire to copy and then pick up. I'm happy to help anyone out that needs a copy, but I don't get to the "city" all that often now that I'm more or less retired.

Your thoughts??

Mike Berg

Mikek · Post by **Mikek** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 15:03

mikeberg/wi wrote:Mike K.
I think the print is 10' X 3'. Since you have access to a large copier and I don't, I can send my spare copy to you and you can be the "keeper of the print". That way if anyone wants or needs a copy they can contact you.

It's a bit of a hassle for me as it usually calls for making two trips to Eau Claire to copy and then pick up. I'm happy to help anyone out that needs a copy, but I don't get to the "city" all that often now that I'm more or less retired.

Your thoughts??

Mike Berg

Mike, Mike here that would be fine send it along with the email of the others that need a copy.

Mike Knemeyer
Dayton Machine Tool
1314 Webster
Dayton, Ohio 45404

Phone 937-222-6444
Fax 937-222-6448
Cell 937-684-5998
email mknemeyer@erinet.com

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 15:20

Mike,
It's on the way........Thanks for volunteering!!

Regards,
Mike Berg

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 17:41

As it turns out, my friend could not handle that size. I would have to go to the Rock for copies. So this will work for me. If you will Mike, please send a copy to:

Dennis Clardy
1506 Cynthia St.
Mtn. View, AR 72560

Please let me know the price.

Dennis