Hand Prop Start by yourself

[Roger Anderson]

Think of it like operating a chain saw. Potentially very dangerous, but can be done very safely.....with thought and caution every time. Reference parking brakes for a Champ (Chief has one already), a local Champ guy has two wedges of wood cut that jam down into the floorboard cutouts for the rear brakes. Works great for locking the two brake pedals and he can just reach his hands down after getting into the front seat and remove them.

[Dan1940Chief]

That's part of the reason I'm going with a battery and starter on the L16. If I'm away from my home airport it's too hard to find someone who you can trust to prop. I've also ran into the situation where I had a flooded engine away from home and it wasn't a lot of fun by myself. Of course I watched a fairly new fuel injected 182 cranking away this morning trying to get a hot start too.

Mike

Why is a flooded engine harder?

The procedure (in the O-145 manual) is to push throttle all the way in, then counter-rotate the prop a dozen times.

Then get everything set up as usual.

Works for me!

[Senior]

The key in my opinion is not the brakes or chokes or rope (not that they shouldn't be done) but to make a ritual of setting the throttle every single time before you prop it.
We've all seen run away planes on you-tube or where ever, one thing is common they never happen to an idleing plane! Heck my plane probably wouldn't even move at idle on pavement, let alone in a bumpy grass field.

[MikeB]

Dan,
That's exactly what I do: switch off, throttle wide open and counter rotate the prop a dozen blades or so. Not any harder but when you're at a strange airport and someone sees you cranking away at the prop you get a lot of looks.

Regarding the switch, I always talk to myself "switch off" or "Switch on" and "throttle off" or "throttle on" before I prop either way. You can imagine what would happen if you leave the throttle open by error after clearing the engine with the switch on. I suspect that's how some of these runaways occur.

I have been at spots on airports where it's just not possible to tie the plane down. Oshkosh is one that comes to mind. About all you can do there is have a helper and chock the wheels.The brake wedge described above it not a bad deal either. Hadn't thought of that although most of the brakes are not that effective on these birds.

MikeB

[Dan1940Chief]

I Haven't been to Osh, but can you drive a stake in the ground?

I use an old Army G_Medium stake and drive it in at an angle which gets a woven nylon rope with a real caribiner around the tailspring.

I also cock the front wheels with a chock on each wheel on one rope (so I can pull out both chocks at once).

[MikeB]

You can drive a stake or tie down ring but I'd never feel comfortable getting that out with the engine running and all those people around. Best to have a good 'helper' who understands I guess. Generally you're on some kind of a time schedule too with lining up the little guy on the scooter. You pretty much got to be ready to go when he comes.

I don't know, maybe someone has a better idea. When I had my other plane with a starter it wasn't a big deal.

Mike

[Roger Anderson]

Something I do when I cannot tie down. The Chief does have a parking brake that works pretty good and a friction throttle lock. However, I also will ask another pilot, if one is available, but actually about anyone will work to do the following. I do not like anyone getting into and out of the plane. Too difficult for many folks and too much chance of hitting the throttle with their legs. I ask them tostand in the pilot side door. I show them the ignition switch, show them how it clicks 3 times, and have them put their hand on the key. I tell them all they have to do is IF the plane begins ANY movement at all just turn the key all the way to the left and the motor will stop. I then jokingly tell them to try to get it turned off before the plane runs over me. So far, so good.

[jimknuck]

I have seen the suction from the engine open the throttle while turning it through with the switch off (if the throttle is not locked). I make sure mine is locked in about 1/4 inch in when propping mine. I also have Bendix Scintilla mags that start first pull. I give 4-5 prime pumps then close the throttle all the way, pull it through 6 times then open the throttle 1/4 inch, make it hot, and it starts frst pull. The trick for me is to make sure you can hear the squishy sound of he fuel in the carb while pulling it through. I chock, use the parking brake and tie the tail.

[Omymyohellyes]

Windsock productions has a DVD that I got as a refresher (also offered streaming online - limited to three views for $5 IIRC).

My prior experience with hand propping consisted of reading a magazine article in the mid 80's and starting a friend's Cub a few times way back then. It was a good review for me and a good starting point for someone that hasn't propped before. I got the DVD in that now I can have anybody that goes to the airport with me watch it before we go - if they have any inclination to try propping.

Airplane used in video demo is a 7AC.

http://www.windsockproductions.com/safe ... pping.html for reference.

OMM

[Captgrumps]

The FAA should make starters on Aeronca airplanes and all light airplanes that could be starter equipped an item for Advisory Circular AC43.13-2B, like they previously did the shoulder harness covered in Chapter 9, paragrpah .900. If ithe starter is STC'd it should begood to go. It is a safety item and a no brainer. For example a C-85-12 already has STC'd starters STC'd for the engines.. The airplanes can already have batteries to run radios, GPS and etc but not leagally hook the battery to the starter without a field approval. Not all FSDO's are knowledgeable of our type airplanes and want nothing to do with them so currently field approavals are like pull teeth with pliers.. I have experienced it. Makes one wonder when the FAA preaches Safety with the FAAST teams. BTW there were two hand prop incidents in Arkansas two weeks ago--not fatal, but serious--one shoulder and one leg.

Doug

[Dennis]

Doug,

Do you know where in Arkansas the hand prop incidents occurred? I did not hear about it.

Dennis

[jc pacquin]

I THINK....most problems occur when the engine has been cleared, the backwards propping, 12 times with the throttle wide open, then forgetting to close the throttle.....or a lousy friction control on the throttle. In the 50's, many many small airplanes were hand propped and it was not worth conversation. Today its a big deal. Back then, I didnt tie it down or chock it. One simply set it on idle, primed it and propped it, ALWAYS on grass! (but......usually someone else was around to help you. Today, no one is around or when you ask someone if they can prop you they look at you like your crazy, usually a young flight instructor with expensive raybans, complex wrist watch, etc.) Today, I tie the tailwheel, set the throttle JUST above idle,(good friction lock!) prop it. I do not chock it as I don't trust myself pulling the chocks and just possibly falling into the spinning prop. If I wasn't flying lite sport, I'd have me an RV4 (starter included) JP.....PS...depending on these old mechanical brakes to stop a high reving engine is, as was said in the airforce, wishing in one hand and sh---ing in the other, and seeing which filled up first.

[Captgrumps]

Heard they were at Springdale and Solom Springs area (sp). As you probably know if folks don't have hull insurance or are on private airports you won't hear about many accidents.

Doug

[Aerco]

Here's the benefit of my vast experience:

Yesterday morning I solo hand-propped an airplane for the first time . (An 85hp Cub of all things - sorry, the only Aeronca the club has is being worked on....). The club is pretty new and they are still figuring out the rules, but it was proposed that you could not take the Cub anywhere without a qualified person along to help you start it. This is going to be a non-starter (oh, the pun...) - very few people will use the airplane with such a rule. I was going to fly it early in the morning and nobody was around, so I simply did what everybody else does - tied the tail to my truck, chocked the wheels, pull through, switches, fuel on etc. - swing it. Once it was running at a low idle, untie the rope, hop in and pull out the chocks with a rope led to the cockpit. What is the big fuss about?

Btw, the only Aeronca I ever flew was a Citabria and despite a lot of prejudice about Cubs, I found it a wonderful machine with two caveats: 1:The narrow cockpit limits your shoe size and you cannot take passengers exceeding a certain "width" without seriously restricting your rudder and brake pedals. 2: I'd much rather fly from the front. My limited comparisons are skewed by the fact that the Citabria I flew was ratty as hell, and this Cub is pristine. Can't wait to get my L3 done.

[Rich Valler]

An interesting thread, although I’m surprised that no-one has mentioned turning the fuel OFF after priming, and back on again only after the engine is running. This is something I have always done when solo hand-starting, and indeed even when I have a pilot as passenger, as it keeps me to a standard routine. Although some doubters have said it’s pointless as the engine would still run long enough even at high revs for the aeroplane to do some damage if it got away, a recent experience demonstrated the potential benefit.

I had just fuelled my Champ and had moved it off the pumps to leave room for the next aircraft, which was a 1940s biplane. After fuelling, the bi-plane was apparently hand-started by the pilot without any chocks or parking brake, with the throttle either mainly or fully open, and the fuel on; the only correct action was that the stick was tied back. The person I was talking with shouted a warning, I turned to see the biplane pilot holding the lower wing and the aircraft groundlooping at an increasing speed; the pilot quickly had to let go, the biplane just missed my Champ (and more importantly, both myself and the fuel pumps) and worked its way in circles out across the active runway and towards the windsock, which it missed. The turns were getting tighter and it really looked as though the undercarriage would collapse, or the aircraft tip on its nose; it was turning far too fast and tight to be able to safely get close to it on foot. Unfortunately it then hit a marker post with the outside wing, which straightened it up, whereupon it promptly took off parallel to the cross runway and with the stick tied fully back, climbed 20-30 feet, stalled in to some trees on the boundary which it hit with the left wing, and disappeared down in to the field outside the aerodrome, almost inverted. The crash crew established there was no immediate risk of fire and secured the wreck … which indeed it was: a beautiful specimen of a vintage aircraft, totally wrecked.

There were several classic mistakes made here of course. Also the bi-plane pilot could have asked one of at least two obvious pilots (airside, and wearing flight overalls) that were standing nearby to assist by covering the throttle and mags. But without doubt, if the fuel had been switched off, the incident would clearly have ended much quicker; as it was it was a very long five minutes!

So my suggestion: FUEL OFF!

Rich