National Aeronca Association Bulletin Board

Point well taken, however as I previously mentioned I don't know many folks that are going to pop $100,000-125,000 plus for what is basically an adult toy. Even (as much as I'd like to own one) the new Champ is around $100,000. When you add in fixed costs, hangar, insurance, the cost per hour with the original outlay is pretty astronomical. Also, most are not really cross country machines and pretty short on utility unlike a Cherokee or a 172.

But I suppose it's 'politics as usual' instead what's best for the industry in general.

Mike

Hey Jack,

Can't argue that the LSA guys are not in favor of this, but I don't think they are doing all that much in direct individual sales here in the U.S. I fly with a regional Sales VP from Cessna and although there was a lot of hype about all the BugCatchers that they have orders for at Oshcosh this year, he told me that the majority of those sales were for outside the U.S. and then the rest were almost all for fglight schools. Doesn't seem that there are many of us Non-Medical Old Guys plunking down $140,000 or more on a New LSA.

It will be interesting to see what happens. I would like to fly my 182 without someone else with a medical needing to be along, but with 235 HP, that will not change anyway.

Ciao - RPK

I agree they're way too expensive. The Skycatcher was just increased to $149,000. Pipistrel says they will soon offer an affordable $83,000 trainer! Before I would spend $83,000 on a new LSA, I would spend half of that for a fully restored Luscombe! That's just me though. I've seen a few schools starting to use the Skycatchers around here.

The Local FBO School at Lincoln Park, New Jersey got a Skycatcher and a solo student bounced it in on a rough landing and totaled it. He was OK, but the plane was totaled. Too windy, though apparently not when he took off at first. My understanding is that the school is not going to replace it because the hull insurance will not be enough to pay for a new one at the new prices.

Putting very low time people in very light aircraft or older Slab Type Wings that will spin much easier than a newer airfoil, I think was a mistake when they came up with the LSA rules. I have yet to see anyone ground loop a 172!

I only know one guy who flies one and he loves it. It has autopilot! I'm glad Cessna is back in the training market, but I love flying the old birds. I'll have to go up in it one day just to see what it's like.

rkittine wrote:The Local FBO School at Lincoln Park, New Jersey got a Skycatcher and a solo student bounced it in on a rough landing and totaled it. He was OK, but the plane was totaled. Too windy, though apparently not when he took off at first. My understanding is that the school is not going to replace it because the hull insurance will not be enough to pay for a new one at the new prices.

Putting very low time people in very light aircraft or older Slab Type Wings that will spin much easier than a newer airfoil, I think was a mistake when they came up with the LSA rules. I have yet to see anyone ground loop a 172!

The Regional Sales VP I mentioned before had a Demo Unit at our home base for a while. Glass Panel Option and other things to make it lighter. If I wanted to fly it within the legal gross weight I could only have a few ounces of fuel or a second person under about 160 pounds if I wanted reasonable fuel and I only weight 190 dressed. Of course for years I flew 150s and 152s over gross.

My Dad would dearly love to go the LSA route. He's 85, and knows that one day he may not be able to pass the 3rd class medical.
He has a very nice '59 182. He can't sell it for enough to buy an LSA that will fit his mission profile. He flies from a high field elevation (~7500'), so DA is a very real concern.
He sold our pre-war Chief to his cousin, with the proviso that it not be sold to anyone except family. But the Chief, while fun, and economical to fly, will not serve his needs as well as a Remos, or an RV12. He wants reasonable crosscountry performance.
If this Idea was put into a bill, and passed, it would open up many new doors for him and others in similar situations.
If it comes down to it, I'll be buying his 182. And help him find a flying Sonex that he can fit into,(he's 6'-3") He likes the Sonex. That, or he'll haffta settle for our Chief, for a while. Which would mean that he can keep flying, but he'll not be able to visit family, much. He'll not drive for great distances, sez it makes him tired. But a 1000nm one way flight in his 182, and he's ready to go fishin' when he gets here.

Comment period ends 07/02. This is important to all of GA including LSA.

Comment here
http://www.regulations.gov/#!submitComm ... -0350-0001

I agree with the gentleman who mentioned Luscombe! If I didn't have to fly LSA I would have already purchased a Luscombe "F" model. I haveflown one in the past. Its a VERY nice airplane that will get up and go! I can't imagine paying the price asked now days for a Champ. Its beyond me how its worth that kind of money, when one can buy a pretty nice MOONEY with nice Xcountry nav. for 60,000 (used but clean!) or a very nice 150 hp Citabria, same condition. Important to remember that not too many years ago you were required to practice spin recovery and unusual attitudes recovery. I did this in an 85HP Champ and it behaved very gently. I think it should still be included for a private ticket. The Champ was perfect as it was simple to fly and very forgiving. It was common sense training. JP

Reckon that might accidently drive the price of the new LSA down? Along with the others going up?

By the way, the comment period was extended, so those who have not signed on an made their feelings known to the FAA should do so. I believe it now runs until September 2nd.

rkittine wrote:
Doesn't seem that there are many of us Non-Medical Old Guys plunking down $140,000 or more on a New LSA

As I remember, not many guys around here plunked down the cash for a new plane in the 1960s and 1970s either. Most of the C150s and Cherokees were bought by flight schools who kept them busy until they were looking at the first engine overhaul. Then these airplanes were sold at reasonable prices to individuals who often flew them past TBO if they were running well while the schools replaced them with new airplanes. Costwise and downtimewise it was a win for everybody. Without a bunch of students putting hours on a bunch of airplanes, this dynamic can't work today. jrh

The 150-152 WERE sold as trainers. Thats what they were. People WERE plunkin down money for Mooney Super 21's, Commanches, Senecas, etc. The Mooney and the Commanchee were big sellers then. Henry Weber, located at Lancaster Penna. sold lots of Mooneys. Another aircraft popular at this time was the Shrike Commander. Some were private, some corporate. Lots of them were around here in the East. You could buy a NICE Super 21 Mooney new for what a new Champ costs now, (loaded). JP

1977 Cessna 150
New price: $13,950 in 1977 dollars

http://flighttraining.aopa.org/learntof ... /0108.html

Adjusting for inflation a new 150 should cost $55,000 in 2012 dollars

http://www.halfhill.com/inflation.html

My friend at the airport just finished his RV12. It took him about 8 months but he goes at it pretty hard when he builds. Probably 40-50 hours a week and this is his forth having built an RV 6, 8, Sonnex and now the RV so it's not necessarily a learning curve for him. I flew in it last week, very comfortable, decent room, good useful load and around 125 mph on 5 gph. A lot more responsive with the stick than a Champ, J-3, etc. The downside.....$70,000 + but then it's a new plane, light sport legal and all new technology.

Mike