Cleveland DMB Replacement Wheels: List of 1500# Replacements

[bob turner]

Well, tomorrow I shall submit a request for a field approval for the Grove hydraulics with a clamp instead of the welding. I am not sure, but I believe I may be the first to ask for a field approval using the clamp. Total cost will probably be under two grand - we have not added it up yet.

This setup, except for the clamp, is identical to the Citabria installation.

You may laugh - field approvals are almost non- existent - but I may succeed on this one. The parts are all either PMA or OEM. ACA is now using Grove parts on new aircraft, as are Cub Crafters and Husky.

I asked for a similar approval last February, but did not push it, since the owner did not push me. This time we have an AOG. I will insist on a yes or no. Stay tuned.

[toms]

Bob,
Sounds great! Let us know how you fare. I'd really like to see a no weld STC but, this is a start.

Tom Seevers
Delaware, OH

[bob turner]

Called my PMI this morning. He said he would get right back to me, and to give him my number. Called in the afternoon - recorded message from FSDO "there is nobody here".

I will get this - but I will probably have to be persistent. My PMI has had three requests for field approvals on his desk since last February, with no answer yea or nay. He is required by the rules to answer them, but I have not been motivated to twist his arm.

This one is "aircraft on ground" and the owner needs an answer. I will check back tomorrow with progress. Remember, there are five times as many inspectors for half as many of us - hard to believe they are simply gone at 2PM on a Monday.

[kyleb]

Shaw,
I have heard that Robbie Grove is making some kind of installation kit for hydraulic brakes in the earlier cable brake installations.
The AC could be used for approval to install a hydraulic system from a 7FC in the fuselage. All of this would be a major alteration.
Paul

I speak to them about this subject every year at Oshkosh, and "Ask again in about a year" has been the answer for about 5 years.

This year (2014) the answer was "We have something that'll work, but you'll need a field approval. Give us a call if you want to buy the parts to go that route."

[bob turner]

STCs are very expensive. The problem is -how many Aeroncas can you do to recover the bucks you spend on an STC?

Field Approvals are getting next to impossible to get, and even with a copy of one in hand the next approval is not guaranteed. I am currently reasonably sure I will get this within two months, and if I do, I will happily share how I did it.

Now this is controversial - many of my friends read the regs in the most restrictive fashion possible, and passionately argue against this, but there is a rule that says plainly that once a field approval has been issued, it becomes approved data for the mechanic who originally got the approval. I personally do not want to do more than one of these installations, but the rule allows it, in my opinion.

[MikeB]

I think part of the problem (currently) with field approvals is the approving agency with not willing to stick their necks out or lack of experience. I've been able to get four approved: pop rivets in place of PK screws on the newer .032 ribs, Sky-Tec starter battery installation, Cessna 150 muffler system and installation of the B & C alternator charging system. In some cases having approved 337's seems to help and doing the research with documents regarding the installation also helps along with filing 'Instructions for Continued Airworthiness'. My IA accused me of writing a book but three out of four breezed through the first time. I know Bill Pancake has a number of approved field approvals for Aeroncas.

Seems like there should be a common sense approach to field approvals. If there in no STC currently available and it can be shown that the supply for Cleveland wheels are drying up and there is a replacement wheel that will do the job with little or no modification then it seems like a no brainer to me but what do I know? I'm sure you could take almost any 'vintage aircraft' and find some minor modification that doesn't meet the original design.

Mike

[Dennis]

Last year at our IA renewal class, a DAR speaker advised that the FAA was in the process of approving select DARs to approve Field Approval request. I have not heard anything lately.

Dennis

[MikeB]

Who would be a DAR? Someone with experience in a specific area or type?

Mike

[Dennis]

Mike, I would assume its someone who is already an approved DAR in a given FSDO.

Dennis

[MikeB]

Guess that makes sense. One interesting note: on the club Champ recently rebuilt and recovered it was decided to install a Cessna 150 exhaust system which is fairly common (both my Champ and L16 have approved paperwork). We furnished the approved 337 paper work to the FSDO but according to the IA it had to go through Chicago engineering this time.
Mike

[Paul Agaliotis]

Mike,
The DAR process is covered in FAR Part 183. There was some talk a few years ago about type specific DAR's. Now I don't know much, but, I decided to consider becoming a DAR for Vintage aircraft and engines. The FAA was absolutly no help. It seems that most of the DAR's in CA are retired FAA employees, that now can charge for their service.
We used a DAR on every YAK that we imported, and passed the cost to the customer. After continued requests the FAA refered me to, you guessed it, the EAA. I don't know why they would be the contact point for the DAR process. But the FAA considers them the "de facto" experts on vintage aircraft. I can't really understand this, the EAA doesn't have much time for people that don't fly a plastic "fast build" kit that costs 100K and has a 50K dollar glass panel.
Paul

[bob turner]

It could be that DARs and DERs are the wave of the future. Something that the feds did for free will now cost a grand. That is because they are too busy - five times as many of them and half as many of us. Boo.

Remember when written exams were free? Now to become a mechanic, you have to pay $500 just for writtens, and another $500 for the practical exam.

Death of a thousand cuts.

[MikeB]

Hmmm! In my former life as a community college instructor I used to give written and performance (hands on) evaluations for university students that were hoping to write off credits for graduation. I believe the university paid me a 'honorarium' of $50 for the administration. I think that worked out to about $5 per hour considering set up time. I got about the same amount when I would have a student teacher for a semester.
Mike