Why is our country bankrupt

[MikeB]

Larry hit it right on the nose. We are borrowing .45 cents out of every dollar spent. Simple economics says we can't keep that up. Both parties are to blame and previous presidents of both parties. There are those who need our help and I'm all for helping them get back on their feet. My wife and, as Christians, I help out a lot of charities as much as we can but teaching in the community college system I saw a lot of revenue wasted on government programs that were supposed to help the disadvantaged but, in fact, were simply taken advantage of by the recepients. Example: government grant (Pell??) student bought a new snowmobile. Example: Indian program: bought new tool box for student...student and box both gone after a week. Example: training students for non-existant jobs. I could go on and on but in 30 years of teaching at that level I saw a lot of wasted time and money and this is probably on a small scale compared to some other government functions.

We simply can't continue as a nanny state (which I think is where Obama would like us to be headed) or we'll wind up like Greece, Spain or some of the other European countries in financial bankrupcy. There is a local furniture factory that has a running ad for shift workers at around $15 per hour with full benefits. About all they can get are Mexicans (who are probably illegal) because the locals don't want to work late shifts or the 'work is too hard'.

MikeB

[jc pacquin]

Hey....many good ideas coming from all this! We may solve it ourselves! JP

[Holcombe]

It does no good to blame Obama, he is a politician running for re-election next year. He is going to do whatever the majority of people want. If people finally are willing to cut back on the benefits they get, and demand common sense in Washington, then it will happen. The radical demands come out of Congress. Particularly in the House, members can make or insert payoffs and hide in obscurity. Only the voters in their own districts get told what they have done. And so it goes on.
The last time we had a balanced budget was under Clinton with a Republican House. A bunch of reform got done.
Since then, we have had the so called Bush Tax Cuts, two unfunded wars, an unfunded Drug benefit for us seniors, and a Federal Reserve pumping out easy credit to hold off the inevitable.
Everyone watching knew a time bomb was ticking.
Then came the asset bubble, pop, and now we are all surprised?
It can, and will, all be fixed. We will miss the god ol' days, but fortunately we fly planes that we can afford to own, fix, and fly.

[jc pacquin]

Re: Ronnie Reagan. He admitted himself that three Premiers of Russia hardly spoke to him. All three were not interested in what he had to say. Finally the fourth, Mikhail Gorbachev realized that things could not continue as they were. He and Reagan were able to find common ground. "Star Wars" had little to do with it. David Stockman, Reagan's financial whiz said at the time" It became a race to see who went bankrupt first. Fortunately, Russia won." unquote. Naturally in America, due to politics, the role of Gorbachev was downplayed. In fact, he was the key , as most historians allow. (Star Wars STILL is not functioning! The Russians have excellent space engineers and were not impressed with it even back then)JP

[MikeB]

You know, I hate to bring this up for no other reason than it sounds petty, but how can we have had a balanced budget under Clinton (and the Republican house) when millions/billions or trillions are owed to the social security fund and all kinds of other trust funds including probably the aviation and transportation funds. I know it shows a lack of economic understanding on my part (high finance is not my area of expertise) but I've always wondered about the shifting of funds which is kind of shell game. Seems like using one credit card to pay off another. Also, didn't both parties vote for at least some if not all of the 'unfunded' items described. Just wondering............................

MikeB

[Holcombe]

Yes, both partys voted for unfunded stuff, and the individual politicians got re elected by giving us the stuff we asked for.
The shell game of shifting money around within the government meant giving the Social Security Trust Fund T-Bills ie. Bonds. The same bonds we sell to the Chinese to cover our trade deficit each year. Also the same bonds that are in 401K retirement portfolios and public employee retirement pension plans.
The trick over the next couple of years is to figure out who to screw, without actually having a default. That is why they are going after social security, the most easy mark of the lot.
Of course ending the Bush Tax Cuts would fix most of the problems, along with cutting back on overseas wars. Reform of the Corporate Tax Code, and either a single payer medical system or honest and transparent competition for the insurance industry and drug companies would help a lot also.
All these "problems" can and will be fixed, but the next few months and years may look a lot like a train wreck as folks try to shift the costs to others less politically connected.
cheers

[RickH]

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Unfortunately that day has arrived....

[MikeB]

So my point is: there wasn't really a surplus of XXtrillion dollars when Clinton left office. The money was just shifted around, right. Not trying to make trouble ......just asking!!
MikeB

[Holcombe]

The budget surplus at the end of the Clinton years was real. That was just the yearly budget, we still had a large national debt on which we were paying interest each year.

A number of factors contributed to the positve cash flow, strong economy and tax receipts, no baby boomers retireing yet, and no foreign wars that included "nation building" as we have been trying to do in Iraq and Afganistan.

The red ink started with the Bush tax cuts, built with two expensive wars, built more with the beginning of the baby boomers retireing and needing medicare and social security benefits, and then went through the roof with Tarp spending under Bush and the Stimulus spending since under Obama, trying to reduce the consequences of the recession.
All of this is history, not opinion or politics.

I also have opinions about why people did what they did, whether they understood what the consequences would be, and whether they cared who would be hurt, but this is a civil discussion and it would be better to keep it that way.

[MikeB]

Thanks! End of discussion for my part.
MikeB

[jc pacquin]

Let me add....if I may, a few words about our troops and "Patriotism." I served( without distinction) in SAC, as a REMF, in the Air Force during the Korean War. Many of the pilots had been recalled, having served in WW2. Alot of NonComs also had served back then. Many did NOT want to be there. Many in our Squadron,had taken advantage of THE GI BILL and one was a dentist, one was a card dealer in Las Vagas! (He had RAF wings AND Command pilots wings as he had flown Hurricanes for the British, then flown P-51's when America entered the war.) In spite of this, they and many others flew B-47's or KC97's and did their duty. Two RB-47s from our base in Kansas, while TDY in Alaska, were Shot down by the Russians as they were flying the coast of Russia gathering elint intel and taking pictures of radar defenses, etc. (They were reported lost as "Weather Recon planes.) My uncle, now 88 years old ,was shot down in a B-24 at 20 during the Polesti raid. He, the pilot and an NCO jumped from low altitude and the Nazi's put them in a POW camp. My uncle survived, got married, raised 6 kids and flew on B-52's for 29 more years out Of Barksdale, La. He retired as a Lt. Col. His oldest boy, recently retired also as a light Col. and flew in the SAME S/N B-52 on a non stop bomb run from Barksdale to the first Gulf war! A buddys father graduated from West Point in '39, flew B-17's, with the 8th, had to be hauled out of the plane after 30 some missions, returned home to Maryland's Eastern Shore on a medical, and RARELY spoke again, mainly looked out the window and cried. I'm well aware of the sacrifices made. I do NOT need a lecture! JP (I also took advantage of the G.I. bill and many years ago, the VA hosp. operated on me as I was young and broke. God Bless them TOO! JP

[jc pacquin]

I think this conversation has been GOOD! Our so called representatives don't listen to us so for me its been enjoyable! Thanks to all. Now....I must cross my fingers and get my plane annualed! JP

[Red(neck) Barron]

idk but it seems to me that if you lie to Congress you go to jail. If they lie to us they get reelected.

[Paul Agaliotis]

Maybe we should switch our government to a Democracy.
Paul

[flyingfool]

Some people do not understand what is really going on I guess.

There is one pesky FACT, documented and PROVEN FACT that many keep denying. And that is when Bush (And Reagan before him) lowered taxes. The REVENUE, the amount of money that the government actually collected went dramatically UP. That is, by cutting taxes the government actually received and collected MORE tax money. So the real 100% unvarnished truth is that tax cuts do NOT cost a thing! In fact keeping taxes high is the true cost as it kills innovation and growth.

You see the tax cuts did and never have caused any deficit or increased the debt. It is the SPENDING that has caused the mess we are in. The fools in charge spent more than even the increased revenue brought in. That is like you and I getting a $5,000 raise in our job but then going out and spending $30,000 and wondering why that would be a problem. It is insanity.

We can argue all day long about whether or not the wars were worth the cost. But that is a diversion as to what the problem and mess we are in now. And make no bones about it. it is a spending problem. And the USA is one of the highest business tax country's in the world. And we wonder why company's are leaving and jobs are going overseas!

As long as corporations and special interest can contribute money to politicians campaigns, I believe this will continue. One simple sweeping change could be made to DRAMATICALLY curtail this. And that is that NO entity, except a honest to goodness legal citizen that is able to go into a voting booth and cast a ballot can give money. No, Unions, No NRA, No Sierra Club, no trial lawyers, no shell oil etc. Only PEOPLE can contribute. And then have each politician be required to keep a list and the amounts from each person. At some level of contribution the campaign would have to put up a biography of the person who gives the large cash amounts. That way people can investigate for themselves what and where that contributor comes from and what their bias may be. Also if found out that a corporation or other entity uses an individual as a shell to launder money, then if that person is caught the go to prison. No questions asked. Locked up! This Idea may not eliminate ALL the problem. But I believe it would be a good first step!

We live in a representative republic (NOT a Democracy). The constitution grants each INDIVIDUAL the right to be represented. Not a corporation or special interest group. The right and liberty of the INDIVIDUAL must be paramount and brought back. If some fool wants to donate $1 million of hos or her hard earned cash to some political moron well it is a free country let them do it. As the old axiom says. A fool and his money will soon be departed. And since we appear to have 536 fools spending our money they hare certainly proven that to be true!

Also:
Someone asked early on in this thread what is "suppressed wages" related to illegal immigration. That is simple concept but hard to actually measure. Here is the situation that explains suppressed wages. Two identical businesses that say do drywall installation in new construction. Way back when both companies paid their employees $10 per hour. While one business only hires legal workers he continues to pay his workers $10 per hour. But his competitor hires illegal workers who will accept cash for $5 per hour. And both businesses are bidding on contract work. Who do you think will get the most work and can do it for the lessor price? And just how long will it be before the 2nd business will have to make the tough choice of either going out of business, start hiring illegal workers or cut the pay of the existing workers? That my friend is wage suppression!

Another example. Years ago full blooded AMERICAN citizens would pick fruit, and clean motel rooms etc. That is because they paid well enough for them to do this work. Now look at what we have. The wages are suppressed so far that we now commonly here the excuse that we need these immigrants because "American's won't do those jobs". Well they did 30 years ago so you can't tell me they won't do them now. The real reason they won't do them is that they won't do them at the wage they are paying. This my friends is wage suppression!

Inflation:

Inflation when you get down to it is nothing but a tax increase on all of the population and the government did NOT have to even take a vote or have hearings or debate it in congress. The Fed just simply prints money. The government gets the advantage because they get the additional taxes collected before the market really fully realizes what has taken place and the money is devalued. So the government collects in higher dollar values while leaving us in the dust with devalued currency.

We are blaming the oil companies and even the termoil in the middle east etc for the price of gas. But in reality what has happened was/is pretty simple. The bailout, stimulus and QE2 what in essence was simply nothing more than firing up the printing press has devaluded the dollar. Since oil is traded with the dollar as currency, the value of the oil remained the same but the dollar was worth less so the price HAS to go up. This in turn results in higher gas prices and since food is made and transported with fuel the food prices have gone up etc. So in large part what we are seeing in gas prices and in inflation as a whole was done by the government printing money. They never had to even debate this "tax increase" before the American people. They just went ahead and did it!

Not only that. Just yesterday they said that the federal Reserve went out on the street to sell US treasury bills. This is not uncommon except for one simple fact. The amount of debt selling that the fed put out to sell EXCEEDED the USA debt ceiling we've been hearing so much about lately. I have to as all of you. What the hell does the debt ceiling mean if the Fed can just go out and ignore it and borrow more than the ceiling?

you see this is all a sham. The Fed is controlling everything and they are completely a shadow entity. We do not even know who the "fed" really is, who controls it and where the money comes from to prop it up. The "fed" only reports to a few Congressional Committees with some figurehead pencil neck geek that tells the lemmings in Congress whatever they want to hear. Congress thinks they are in control but as we saw yesterday when the fed can just go out and borrow more than the Debt ceiling set by congress you clearly see who is really in control!

All the rhetoric is all about how social security and medicare etc will be cut and how that is a bad deal.

Here is where we are at: We have the choice between these two alternative.

1) We all get less
OR
2) We all will get nothing

There simply is not enough money to have any other choice. We don't have to like this choice. But because we all let the idiots in Washington D.C. not make the tough choices they needed to make DECADES ago, we now have come to this ultimatum.

One last thing. The Jews NEVER took away the land and country of Palestine. There never was through the history of the world a country of Palestine. If I heat that lie one more time I think I'll puke! Israel provides jobs and livelihood for many so called Palestinian's. However the neighboring countries run by Arabs do not give those same Palestinian's the same deal. Israel was created out of the same land that was inhabited by the so called Palestinian's for thousands of years. And they lived like nomad rats in a tent of cave. In a mere 50 years the Jews came into a small area of land and made it into a thriving metropolis with jobs and a modern quality of life. I think the Palestinian's are just jealous that they have been shown up in that the Jews who they hate as preached and beaten into them by their religion to think they are apes and pigs to provide a lifestyle that they could not do in a 1,000 years. The area that was known to be called Palestine encompassed thousands of square miles. And Israel is about the size of the state of NJ. It is a tiny speck in geographic size. yet the Palestinian's can't seem to be able to live with the other 99.5% of the land mass. They just have to kill every Jew they can to reclaim that 0.5% or whatever the ratio comes out to be.