Data plate?

BSimpson · Post by **BSimpson** » Tue May 08, 2007 23:46

Hello all, I can't find the data plate for my A/C. The fellow doing the restoration believes it was missing, can and how would be the best way to replace it? thx Billy.

PS. I just got hooked up on the forum and I am sure there will be many, many Q/A. thanks

Post by **joea** » Wed May 09, 2007 08:24

Billy,

First of all, welcome on board! Good group of people here and we are glad to help.

This could be a very sticky situation.

Do you have ALL, and I mean ALL of the aircraft logbooks and paperwork? Its very important as I have seen people sell an airplane and all they are selling is a data-tag and one or two logbooks. The data-tag means a lot on these old airplanes.

Hope that you did a title search when buying the plane and everything came up clean there, as that would help.

A very good friend of mine (and fellow Aeronca owner) was mixed up in a mess like this. He helped a friend restore a Piper Cub years ago and they had legally purchased the airplane after an accident. It seems that someone had been around the accident and removed the data-tag and a while later sold it to someone. This person had no idea that he was being scammed and proceeded to piece together another Cub using ONLY the data-tag and the bill of sale provided by the owner as his documentation.

When he went to register the airplane he found that there was another Cub with the same serial and "N" number as the one shown on his data-tag and paperwork! My friends airplane had been restored and was flying with a new duplicate data-tag. They had all the paperwork and logbooks from day one, but the data-tag was missing so they went to Piper for a new one. The second guy had no logbooks, but the data-tag from the original airplane.

They finally worked it out, but you can see why its important to get the data-tag if possible. It cost the second guy a lot of money in the end.

Also, was just out at a friends farm outside Houston. He bought a load of old airplane parts, and some wood pieces and wing spars years ago. Did not inspect things that closely and just stuck them up in the barn. Recently he needed some wood for a project and pulled some of this down. He flipped it over to see which was the best side to use and when he did he saw that there was an Aeronca data-tag still screwed to the floorboard! The factory screwed the data-tags to the floorboard, but in the 70 years since they have been built have been moved all around the cockpit and airplane.

He cleaned it up and found that it was for the #3 Champ built, one of the prototype airplanes! He then contacted the registered owner only to be told that "yes that airplane was destroyed in a storm years ago and I sold the bits"... He then asked if he would mind signing a bill of sale, which the owner did. The owner then asked him "would you like the old logbooks as well?"

Needless to say my friend was astounded and very, very lucky. He is now piecing together an airplane based ONLY on that old data-tag he found on a Champ floorboard. Of course now he has a bill of sale and logbooks, so he feels comfortable with it, but it very easily could have been a whole different ball of wax.

Now, the short answer to your question... Which Aeronca do you have? If you have a pre-war or early WW2 airplane you need a data-tag that says "Lunken Airport" on the bottom. A later model airplane should have "Middletown Airport" on the bottom. Aeronca moved from Lunken airport after a flood in the 1940 time frame and to be correct you should look for the data-tag that matches your plane.

There is (or was) one selling on Ebay recently but it was for a pre-war airplane. You do see them from time to time but not often. I have one blank one but not really interested in getting rid of it. That said I might loan it out if someone wants to have someone make some new ones.

Hope this helps,

Joe A

jerrymjr · Post by **jerrymjr** » Wed May 09, 2007 09:41

If you have enough records to convince the local FISDO, they will write you a letter that allows us (ACA) to stamp you out a new plate. I forget how much, but its under $100. This is pretty cheap for being legal.

BTW, I am assuming you have some sort of 7 series champ. If you have a pre-war, then ACA cant help you.

Post by **joea** » Wed May 09, 2007 09:50

Billy,

Jerry (above post) works at ACA, the company who is making the new Champs, so good advise there.

By the time you found a data-tag on ebay, then got a trophy shop to stamp it all out, the $100 price quoted by ACA is a good price and there is no doubting the history in case someone asks.

Joe

Jon B. · Post by **Jon B.** » Wed May 09, 2007 14:06

I took the route Jerry mentioned. I had the logs and bill of sale but no data plate or C of A. A guy from the Minneapolis FSDO came out, looked at the logs, inspected the airframe & engine (to see if the numbers matched) and said it looked good. A few days later, two letters arrived: one for ACA and another for Teledyne-Continental.

I ordered new data plates for airframe and engine and all is right with the world.

The engine data plate (I replaced the case with an overhauled one) had only the serial number. Everything else had been erased by cleaning or wear or something.

The plates are cheap, and the letters were free.

Jon B.

BSimpson · Post by **BSimpson** » Wed May 09, 2007 20:39

Thanks for info Jon.
Billy

captainpat · Post by **captainpat** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 13:13

I just became the proud owner of N83806 and am going to follow the advice of Jerrymjr to get new data plates as soon as I get the new registration from the feds.

My question to anyone out there is: how do you get the drive screws out of the engine case to remove and replace the data plate?

Post by **joea** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 14:03

Pat,

Welcome to the group. Believe that the data-plate on the engine is held on by small rivets. These rivets come with a new data-tag.

Installation is a question I cannot help with, but have seen the new tags w/rivets before.

Joe

Robert Henley · Post by **Robert Henley** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 23:42

captainpat wrote:My question to anyone out there is: how do you get the drive screws out of the engine case to remove and replace the data plate?

Pat

I am having the same problem. TCM has a service information letter on this (SIL00-9A) and the FAA has an advisory circular (45-3) addressing it as well.

I am still trying to pry off the engine dataplate before I send in the case for overhaul. I am not making much headway.

You can get the AC from the FAA website and the TCM SIL from their website.

Regards

Robert

Jon B. · Post by **Jon B.** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 09:35

I didn't need the old data plate, so I simply pried it off. It was pretty heavy-gauge stainless so wasn't badly damaged. The truth is, I didn't need the case, either, as it was shot. I believe I sent the plate back to TCM with the request for a new one (and a check).

I drilled holes in the new case, slightly smaller than the drive screws (I can't remember where I got these) and hammered them in. You get a very slight amount of oil leakage at these holes but not significant enough to do more than make a damp spot on the case.

No, it doesn't feel right to drill holes in your engine case but...

Jon B.

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:40

I did the same as Jon, except I glued the plate and drilled for the new rivits (being a pessimest). Doesn't seem to leak.

Mike Berg

captainpat · Post by **captainpat** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:21

Thanks to all who responded to my question about data plate removal. The TCM letter was very informative.

I wonder if it would be possible for someone who has obtained a replacement 7AC tag from ACA to load an image of it here.

Perhaps Jerrymjr, at your convenience, could do this?

Thanks again all,

Pat

Jody Wittmeyer · Post by **Jody Wittmeyer** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 01:50

Jerry, will you also make them for the 11-AC's

Post by **joea** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 02:16

Jody Wittmeyer wrote:Jerry, will you also make them for the 11-AC's

ACA owns the type certificate for the 11 series, so would think that they could do the same as they are doing now for the 7 series on replacement data-plates.