How can one tell by looking if an airplane had the "No Bounce Gear" , (Landing Gear Oleo Part Nr: 3-665) installed ? (No record in the log books but STC SA19SO- aux tank installation- was done and the "No Bounce" gear is optional on the STC)
This is very important, as with this "No Bounce" gear a Model CCM conversion has its Gross Weight increased to 1350 lbs. which takes it out of the Light Sport category.
Thanks for any info-
Rudy
"No Bounce Gear"
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rudymantel
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Rudy,
No idea on the gear, others will assist you on that.
Was the weight limit accompanied by a 337? Have you gotten a CD with the history of the plane from the FAA? Whatever is showing in their records in OKC is what you have to deal with.
If the increase in weight was done with a logbook entry only and NO 337, then have heard of people "losing" that logbook (or logbook page) where it was entered and keeping the plane at a weight lower than the SP limit of 1320 pounds.
Same thing with the gear. As I understand it you were allowed to increase the GW by using the no-bounce gear but it was not mandatory. Once the GW has been increased above 1320 pounds and this info has been sent to the FAA it will never be allowed to be a SP legal airplane.
Assume that you are looking to buy a plane? Get the CD from the FAA (usually takes about 5 days) and look at it, or ask the seller if he has a copy.
Joe
No idea on the gear, others will assist you on that.
Was the weight limit accompanied by a 337? Have you gotten a CD with the history of the plane from the FAA? Whatever is showing in their records in OKC is what you have to deal with.
If the increase in weight was done with a logbook entry only and NO 337, then have heard of people "losing" that logbook (or logbook page) where it was entered and keeping the plane at a weight lower than the SP limit of 1320 pounds.
Same thing with the gear. As I understand it you were allowed to increase the GW by using the no-bounce gear but it was not mandatory. Once the GW has been increased above 1320 pounds and this info has been sent to the FAA it will never be allowed to be a SP legal airplane.
Assume that you are looking to buy a plane? Get the CD from the FAA (usually takes about 5 days) and look at it, or ask the seller if he has a copy.
Joe
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rudymantel
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No Bounce Gear
Joe, many thanks. I have the FAA records and they show a copy of the STC for wing tanks, which this airplane has. It also states that
"All model CCM airplanes are approved for operation at a gross weight of 1350 lbs. when 'no-Bounce' Landing Gear Oleos part number 3-665 are installed..."
So far can find no mention of such gear being installed.
Jim Thompson has a photo of this gear and will scan and e-mail it to me, so that should tell the tale.
Regards,
Rudy
"All model CCM airplanes are approved for operation at a gross weight of 1350 lbs. when 'no-Bounce' Landing Gear Oleos part number 3-665 are installed..."
So far can find no mention of such gear being installed.
Jim Thompson has a photo of this gear and will scan and e-mail it to me, so that should tell the tale.
Regards,
Rudy
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Mikek
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Re: No Bounce Gearhttp://www.hangar9aeroworks.com/Aeroncastr
Try this link:rudymantel wrote:Joe, many thanks. I have the FAA records and they show a copy of the STC for wing tanks, which this airplane has. It also states that
"All model CCM airplanes are approved for operation at a gross weight of 1350 lbs. when 'no-Bounce' Landing Gear Oleos part number 3-665 are installed..."
So far can find no mention of such gear being installed.
Jim Thompson has a photo of this gear and will scan and e-mail it to me, so that should tell the tale.
Regards,
Rudy
http://www.hangar9aeroworks.com/Aeronca ... Gear-9.jpg
Mikek
Mike Knemeyer
1410 Meadow Lane
Yellow Springs,Ohio 45387
3oh0
N83348 7AC-2015
N82146 7AC-772
1410 Meadow Lane
Yellow Springs,Ohio 45387
3oh0
N83348 7AC-2015
N82146 7AC-772
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rudymantel
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No Bounce Gear
Many thanks Mike !
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rudymantel
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No Bounce Gear
Guys,
The Champ I'm buying does NOT have the "No Bounce" gear.
Thanks for all your help- this forum is outstanding!
Rudy
The Champ I'm buying does NOT have the "No Bounce" gear.
Thanks for all your help- this forum is outstanding!
Rudy
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Mikek
- Posts: 594
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- Location: Yellow Springs, Ohio 45387 [3OH0]
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Rudy,joea wrote:Rudy,
You still need to look at the 337's and make sure that the GW has not been increased.
Joe
Like Joe pointed out the true test is in the paper work, look on the 337's and logbooks and see when the W&B calulations were done for the wing tank STC and any other recalulations, if they list the gross weight over 1320# and you need the Champ to be LSA you may/will have a problem, but it sounds like you will be OK.
Mikek
Mike Knemeyer
1410 Meadow Lane
Yellow Springs,Ohio 45387
3oh0
N83348 7AC-2015
N82146 7AC-772
1410 Meadow Lane
Yellow Springs,Ohio 45387
3oh0
N83348 7AC-2015
N82146 7AC-772
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rudymantel
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No Bounce Gear
Mike, Joe, Jim, I 'm satisfied the airplane does not have a No-Bounce gear and its GW was not increased.
However, I reluctantly decided not to proceed with the purchase. It would have involved extensive restoration and paper work. Nails had backed out of the spar and proper repairs would have involved at least opening the wings. It would make sense to then replace the spars and re-cover. Buying aluminum spar new wings made good sense, but with an O-200 engine wing tanks are a must. (The airplane presently has wing tanks). But there is no approval for wing tanks in new wings for the 7AC (or CCM) so the factory would have to get special approval.
I then planned to have the fuselage and tail feathers recovered and the fuselage snad blasted and painted. More money and trouble. and on and on. I was facing a money pit.
Have been looking for a long time for a Champ with electric starter that was LSA legal. They exist but are scarce. The search continues...
Rudy
However, I reluctantly decided not to proceed with the purchase. It would have involved extensive restoration and paper work. Nails had backed out of the spar and proper repairs would have involved at least opening the wings. It would make sense to then replace the spars and re-cover. Buying aluminum spar new wings made good sense, but with an O-200 engine wing tanks are a must. (The airplane presently has wing tanks). But there is no approval for wing tanks in new wings for the 7AC (or CCM) so the factory would have to get special approval.
I then planned to have the fuselage and tail feathers recovered and the fuselage snad blasted and painted. More money and trouble. and on and on. I was facing a money pit.
Have been looking for a long time for a Champ with electric starter that was LSA legal. They exist but are scarce. The search continues...
Rudy
Rudy,
Spar nails back out all the time. We just tap them back in or put larger or new ones in their place.
If you want and need a starter thats easy. Find a Champ that needs an engine and replace it with an engine that uses a starter, or find one that has a C-85-12, C-90 or O-200 as all of those can use the Skytec or B&C starter.
Spar nails back out all the time. We just tap them back in or put larger or new ones in their place.
If you want and need a starter thats easy. Find a Champ that needs an engine and replace it with an engine that uses a starter, or find one that has a C-85-12, C-90 or O-200 as all of those can use the Skytec or B&C starter.
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rudymantel
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Joe, don't I also need an STC to install the starter and electrical system?
Wouls also need generator/alternator, regulator, battery etc. And of course the STC to install the engine, a C-90-12 or preferably O-200.
But it's a good idea- would be grateful for advice on STC's. Are they still available ?
Rudy
Wouls also need generator/alternator, regulator, battery etc. And of course the STC to install the engine, a C-90-12 or preferably O-200.
But it's a good idea- would be grateful for advice on STC's. Are they still available ?
Rudy
Rudy,
There are various STC's to install most things, and if not there are times that you can get a field approval.
B&C and Skytek have STC's already approved to install their starters on most all small Continentals. What you need to look for is an airplane with an accessory case that will accomodate a starter. This is usually a C85-12 model engine or a C-90 or O-200. The two above starters are smaller and shorter so will usually fit with NO modifications to the fuel tank, which was the old hassle with the longer original starter used with these engines.
Other option is to find an airplane with a run out engine and find a engine to replace it on the plane that will accomodate a starter.
Many people are putting these starters on their airplanes but not installing a generator. Without a generator you do not have to have a radio and transponder. Once you ever install an engine driven generator then you are mandated to always have a built in radio and transponder.
These people are putting a small gel cell or sealed battery in the plane and simply charging it every 3-4 flights. You can as well use this to supply power to a GPS and handheld radio. These are called "total loss" systems as they are not recharged in flight and are field approved on a 337 form. A good A&P mechanic can do this for you, along with the wiring, new starter/magneto switch and a relay to handle the power.
Lots of options out there... Let us know what you really want and we will try to lend a hand.
Joe
There are various STC's to install most things, and if not there are times that you can get a field approval.
B&C and Skytek have STC's already approved to install their starters on most all small Continentals. What you need to look for is an airplane with an accessory case that will accomodate a starter. This is usually a C85-12 model engine or a C-90 or O-200. The two above starters are smaller and shorter so will usually fit with NO modifications to the fuel tank, which was the old hassle with the longer original starter used with these engines.
Other option is to find an airplane with a run out engine and find a engine to replace it on the plane that will accomodate a starter.
Many people are putting these starters on their airplanes but not installing a generator. Without a generator you do not have to have a radio and transponder. Once you ever install an engine driven generator then you are mandated to always have a built in radio and transponder.
These people are putting a small gel cell or sealed battery in the plane and simply charging it every 3-4 flights. You can as well use this to supply power to a GPS and handheld radio. These are called "total loss" systems as they are not recharged in flight and are field approved on a 337 form. A good A&P mechanic can do this for you, along with the wiring, new starter/magneto switch and a relay to handle the power.
Lots of options out there... Let us know what you really want and we will try to lend a hand.
Joe
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rudymantel
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No Bounce Gear
Joe, that is good advice- I'll tryo to find a sound airplane with a starter-capable engine. Any leads would be welcome.
Rudy
Rudy
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Carl Prather
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Rudy Aeronca Search
Rudy,
If I read your post about metal spars correctly, I don't think their installation precludes the use of wing tanks. Although this is a hot topic, but there is nothing wrong with the Champ wood spars. In fact, I think they are superior to the metal spars for the following reasons: 1) They are 10 or 12 lbs lighter than the metal spars, 2) Wood spars will absorb energy in turbulence better than the metal spars and 3) Wood spars do not fatigue. Remember, the Champ started out as a 1220 lb standard category trainer and ended up being a 1650 lb aerobatic category bird all using the same wood spar. I have been told that ACA's metal spar wing also has an inspection AD on them, too. However, as with all AD's, their purpose is remove, not encourage doubt. It's not clear cut win on the metal spars. I'm in trouble now!
How much are looking to spend for a Champ? I'm in California and will keep an eye out for you, if you wish although I see you live in Florida. I take it the ideal Champ for you is one with at least 18 gallons total and a starter?
If I read your post about metal spars correctly, I don't think their installation precludes the use of wing tanks. Although this is a hot topic, but there is nothing wrong with the Champ wood spars. In fact, I think they are superior to the metal spars for the following reasons: 1) They are 10 or 12 lbs lighter than the metal spars, 2) Wood spars will absorb energy in turbulence better than the metal spars and 3) Wood spars do not fatigue. Remember, the Champ started out as a 1220 lb standard category trainer and ended up being a 1650 lb aerobatic category bird all using the same wood spar. I have been told that ACA's metal spar wing also has an inspection AD on them, too. However, as with all AD's, their purpose is remove, not encourage doubt. It's not clear cut win on the metal spars. I'm in trouble now!
How much are looking to spend for a Champ? I'm in California and will keep an eye out for you, if you wish although I see you live in Florida. I take it the ideal Champ for you is one with at least 18 gallons total and a starter?
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rudymantel
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- Location: Hollywood North Perry (FL) HWO
- Contact:
Aeronca Search
Carl, I think you're correct regarding metal spars. Good wood ones are no doubt lighter and probably stronger.
Yes, I'm looking for a good, sound Champ with an electric starter and preferably also alternator/generator that will be Light Sport legal. It should never have had its Max GW aincreased to more than 1320 lbs.
But with the right airplane I'd consider a gel battery and starter and no generator.
I know that the legal useful load will be small with a full electric system, but could live with that.
Being in Florida, California is a very long way to go and look at an airplane- I'd much prefer to find one closer by. But if it could be initially inspected by someone qualified and trustworthy I'd even consider CA.
Rudy
Yes, I'm looking for a good, sound Champ with an electric starter and preferably also alternator/generator that will be Light Sport legal. It should never have had its Max GW aincreased to more than 1320 lbs.
But with the right airplane I'd consider a gel battery and starter and no generator.
I know that the legal useful load will be small with a full electric system, but could live with that.
Being in Florida, California is a very long way to go and look at an airplane- I'd much prefer to find one closer by. But if it could be initially inspected by someone qualified and trustworthy I'd even consider CA.
Rudy