National Aeronca Association Bulletin Board

Our project is going at warp speed! We hope to have her back in the air by Spring 2008.

The fuselage was disassembled. All the wood and glass is new. We used the "Al Nase Yellow" dope finish.







We appreciate all the help we received from the NAA members who answered our questions about the headliner installation. We installed Hooker Harnesses using the SL from American Champion.

Mark,

Looks very nice. Cannot wait to see the completed airplane. Which engine are you using?

Remember that sometime in June 2008 is the next NAA fly-in at Middletown where your Champ was "born," so try to get it completed in time to join there!

Joe

The engine is a stock 65.

We have already plotted the course to Middletown!

Our current quandry is whether to install wing tanks. Nine and a half times out of ten we would not need the extra gas. Looking at our course accross the Allegheny's is making us think again about the wing tanks.

We are not taking credit for this great restoration on our Champ. We are very fortunate to have a master dope and fabric man, Roger Lehnert, working on it. We'll be setting up a web site soon that documents the project.

Mark,

If there is any question, now is the time to make the decision. Personally I would opt for at least one of the 5.5 gallon tanks and that would give you another 90 minutes reserve with a 65 hp engine.

Looking forwards to seeing you and the plane at Middletown!

Joe

Mark,

I would vote for one wing tank. This way any destination planned on only 12 gallons will never be in doubt. After all the work, time and effort into your plane, the cost is minor.
Carl Prather

If I were building a Champ it would have 1 tank (5gal) for sure.
Looks great !
Paul

I just finished a restoration, and I put two 5 gal tanks from wag aero in the wings, and the two forward airframe reinforcement tubes that clamp on, just a suggestion. looks good.

I'd also shoot for a set of the Wag Aero 5.5 gallon wing tanks. The old 12-13 gallon nose tank can raise the pucker factor when the next airport doesn't seem to appear on time. I have friend with a Taylorcraft who flies some fairly long distances and wouldn't be without the wing tank.

It might also be that the 65 horse engine might be replaced with a 85 or larger in the future. Having additional fuel increases the value of the plane and prevents having to rip into the wings at a later date to add fuel capacity.

Just my thoughts.

Mike Berg

Does anyone have photos or drawings of the tank installation? Are the tanks FAA/PMA or is it an STC? How are the lines routed from the tank to the engine? Do the tanks feed to the main tank or is there a switch? Can you put in one tank only? If so, is there a preference for one side over the other? How much do the tanks weigh when empty? Can you fill the tanks and still carry two people?

Thanks for all your help. We should have thought of this earlier.

(The sight tube is not part of the kit, but is a neat idea.)

They tanks are STC'd from WagAero or you could get the construction drawing off Todd's site ( www.aeronca.com ) and build your own; legally. Generally there is one pick-up at the front of the tank and it routes down the front post, under the panel and "T's" into the nose tank's line. You can put the valve just about anywhere. Most stick them under the panel or up in the wing root. The idea is, burn the nose tank for an hour, then turn the wing tank on, and it fills the nose tank. You can buy/install only 1 tank, but they don't list it in the catalog, you have to ask for it. And if you install only one tank, I'd suggest putting it on the right side, so when you check the oil you can check both fuel tanks without walking around the airplane. Plus you can reach out and sump the wing from the front seat if you forget.

nkh

Mark,

Todd Trainor does have the 7 series installation drawing, 7-1001, shwoing in his drawing list. It will give you good detail for the straps and hardware used. I would send him a donation of, say, $20, and he will send you a DVD of nearly 1000 drawings for all the pre-war and 7 and 11 series. I has has been a decade-long process for him to get to this point. It would be money very well spent, in my opinion, to get actual factory drawings.

Tx, Carl

Mark,

I realized that you had many question that may have not been answered:

Does anyone have photos or drawings of the tank installation?
Yes, Todd Trainor and Wag Aero's STC have the drawings.

Are the tanks FAA/PMA or is it an STC?
The PMA, at least as I understand it, gives maker the right to manufacture a part equal to the original part that came from the factory. An STC, amends the aircraft TC, allowing changes to the aircraft without violating the original TC. Wag Aero has an STC but also builds the tanks. Also, buying used OEM tanks and using the factory inastallation drawing should work also. Maybe the A & P guys could comment on this.

How are the lines routed from the tank to the engine?
The 5 gal aux tanks carry one fuel valve per wing tank and I think it tees into the outlet beneath the nose tank. They route just as you might think from the tank down the side of the windshield under the nose tank. Honestly, I've never seen a complete routing of the fuel line and there are those on the list who have real-world experience who can elaborate but I think the fuel line routing is straight forward and was a retrofit option back in the day.

Do the tanks feed to the main tank or is there a switch?
Each tank has its own valve and while in level flight, once the nose is half full, one wing tank valve can opened to refill the nose tank.

Can you put in one tank only?
Yes.

If so, is there a preference for one side over the other?
I don't think it matters.

How much do the tanks weigh when empty?
The type certificate says each wing aux tank weighs 8 lbs.

Can you fill the tanks and still carry two people?
Yes, it is possible. The tanks are just another item for weight and balance, like the location of the pilot, passenger, baggage and nose tank with it's own moment arm. The weight and moments just need to fit within the envelope for weight and balance. If the occupants and plane are heavy, then the filling tanks might difficult from a weight standpoint but less so from a balance standpoint. If the pilot and pax weight 340 pounds and 23 galllons -give or take- of fuel weighs 138 lbs. then, assuming the balance is fine and your planes gross weight is 1220 lbs, then the empty can't be greater than 748 pounds empty. So, filling the tanks might difficult for a lot of planes.

"Mission creep" can set in on our little airplanes. The Champ was designed to be local traner and the Chied was the cross country cousin.
However, I feel a 3-tank Champ is a very good choice, especially with an 85 horse enigne. One the other hand, I have a good friend who swears by his 65 horse 7AC with a main tank, with many others echoing his comments, that a good light weight Champ is a joyous thing to fly.

Hope this helps.

Carl

Thanks for all the answers.

For the most part our Champ flying will be local, BUT, there is the thought that we'll be making some longer trips.

Crunch time for a decision is right around the corner.

NC83401 wrote:Does anyone have photos or drawings of the tank installation? Are the tanks FAA/PMA or is it an STC? How are the lines routed from the tank to the engine? Do the tanks feed to the main tank or is there a switch?

Here are some pictures from my project. I didn't do the work; it was completed before I purchased the project.





















The STC from Aero Fabricators is pretty straight-forward on installation and is much easier if you are restoring the airplane. I have two tanks and it should be a pretty good installation and provide the fuel I need for a C-85 engine.

Sorry if I got carried away on uploading pictures.

Regards

Nathan K. Hammond wrote:

(The sight tube is not part of the kit, but is a neat idea.)

They tanks are STC'd from WagAero or you could get the construction drawing off Todd's site ( www.aeronca.com ) and build your own; legally. Generally there is one pick-up at the front of the tank and it routes down the front post, under the panel and "T's" into the nose tank's line. You can put the valve just about anywhere. Most stick them under the panel or up in the wing root. The idea is, burn the nose tank for an hour, then turn the wing tank on, and it fills the nose tank. You can buy/install only 1 tank, but they don't list it in the catalog, you have to ask for it. And if you install only one tank, I'd suggest putting it on the right side, so when you check the oil you can check both fuel tanks without walking around the airplane. Plus you can reach out and sump the wing from the front seat if you forget.

nkh

Nathan,

Do you have the Manufacture & Part# for the fuel valve wagaero uses in their kit?

MikeK