National Aeronca Association Bulletin Board

I know I posted something on this before but I can't find the message. Anyway, does anyone have the Wag Aero five gallon wing tanks installed? This is the kit for right and left wings (their catalog # E-476-000). The confusing part is installing the left/right fuel valves. According to the installation directions the valves are supposed to be installed "just below the instrument panel and forward of the metal side panels on either side of the fuselage". The drawing shows them on top of the fuselage longeron and secured by adel clamps. As far as I can tell it "ain't no way' they'll fit in that position as they're stuck between the dash and the fuel tank. My original idea was to install them above the door and window on either side, as some Champs and L16's have them, but that's not without it's problems either plus it doesn't really meet the spirit of the STC. I talked to Tom at Wag today but no help............. . I'd be interested in any information or even pictures of the setup if someone has them.

Here's a copy of the paperwork.



Thanks,
Mike

Mike, I'll try to get a picture tomorrow and post it. I placed them between the "Y" bars at the top. Looks OK there, easy to get to and easy to verify position.

Dennis

Mike,
You might look into installing the tanks using the Aeronca drawings for the valve placement and by-pass the STC trouble. I put in a set from them and the "approval" was nothing more than a well worn copy of an approved installation done in the 1960's.
Paul

I ran the idea of placing the valves above the door and windows (behind the wing root) by my IA. That would be like the original Aeroncas that had a right 5.5 or 6 gallon fuel tank. He said if I could come up with a drawing that it shouldn't be a problem and the 337 could be written up accordingly. I found a copy in the L16 parts book and also went through a bunch of pictures Nate had sent me regarding the greenhouse and see one of those L16's also had a left and right valve behind the wing root. So I guess it's doable. That's the route I'll probably go but I still don't understand how the Wag Aero set up works under the dash. I kind of like to do things "pretty right' and don't want to get hung up on some technicality later on............been there and done that!!

(Update)
As I as typing the message this morning, the phone rang and it was Bill Pancake saying he was basically going through the same thing with a wing tank project and had talked to the FAA about moving the fuel valves. Bill offered to send me the drawings describing the location of the fuel valves and we also discussed how to word the installation. Thanks Bill, for the great support. Email address is: mikejudyberg@centurytel.net

Mostly I was courious how the Wag Aero valves were set up considering the location and lack of room and would have liked to see a picture of the actual installation but guess I won't worry about it now.

Mike

Mike,

If you can get the drawing numbers, I can email them to you.

Joe

Thanks Joe,
I think Bill is sending me the info. Actually I have the Aeronca CD from Todd T. They might be on there, too.
Mike

The plan......................



Mike

Mike, on your 5.5 gal wing tanks from Wag-Aero does the STC state where the fuel valve centerline of the 3/8 tubing going into the valve should be in heighth compared to the fuel tank outlet fitting. My tank was put in in the 50's under a 337 type form and the old bracket that mounted the valve into the wing root area in the fuselage placed the valve about 1 inch higher than the outlet coming out of the tank. Seems that the bottom 1 inch of fuel in the tank wouldn't be forced into the fuel line unless that small 1/4" tube sticking out the bottom with a bevel to the front pressurizes the fuel in the tank forcing it into the fuel line. I haven't checked the fuel tank cap that came with the plane to see if it is vented or not. I can place my valve slightly below the tank outlet and still bring the fuel line from the valve at a steady drop down as it exits the headliner toard the instrument panel. 6 to 8 inches of snow tomorrow - hope it's a late April fools joke as the blower is out in the hangar!!!!!!!!! Thanks....Gordy in Mn

Gordy,
I don't think there was anything in the instructions regarding the angle on the fuel valve but I put it so it was on downward gravity flow. Just made sense to me, I guess. Well, actually the Wag Aero valves were supposed to be under the dash if you can believe it but ran it by my IA and we decided that putting it in the wing root like the L16's originally came was the best deal. The Wag Aero instructions were pretty vague. The Wag tanks vent through the cap but I think I'm going to braze an angled vent on the cap also if there's problems feeding. If you can move the valve down I think I'd do it rather than struggle with it later.

Regarding the weather, they were saying 6-8 inches tomorrow afternoon/night. I was supposed to drive a track trip tomorrow night but bet it will be cancelled. My daughter in law from San Antonio asked my son "Why do people live up there?". Good question .

Mike

Mike, I just went through the same process. I didn`t like the way the fuel valves were supposed to be mounted according to the STC. I used a `T` fitting where the fuel enters the bottom of the tank. I made an angle bracket and bolted both valves to it, then screwed the bracket to the bottom of the tank support board. This made for a secure installation. I mounted the valve orientation placard on the bracket between the valves. My IA was okay with this installation. Jim

Jim,
That would certainly also work. If I had a headliner, which I don't (L16) I probably would have gone with another plan under the dash, too. Although, I think I've seen the valves mounted high on headliner Champs, too. In fact, that appears to be the case in Gordy's Champ. Once you go with a 85 or bigger engine it's pretty much mandatory to have the extra fuel capacity. The 85 just barely makes the requirement but it's got to be pretty marginal. The 13 gallon tank can raise the pucker factor with a 65 and headwind at times.

I never understood Wag's method of securing the valves under the dash with Adel clamps. Seemed pretty 'Mickey Mouse' to me.

MikeB

Mikeb , Thought I would add my two cents worth , if it would be of help . Our L-16A has a six gal. right side aux tank with the valve at the wing root on a bracket , a bit more substantial than the one in the photo . It works fine inspite of the valve getting a bit stiff if not used regularly , requiring disassembly and regreasing at annual . The only real problem I ever had was when it was first used , it would not transfer until the main tank was REALLY low . Adding a forward facing tube vent on the cap cured the problem immediately . The original factory set up with a 13 gallon main tank met the minimum fuel for 85 HP , just barely . The extra 6 gal is well worth the time and money for peace of mind .

I recently used Aeronca Drawing No. 7-796b to locate the Imperial fuel valves in my Champ. I took photos of other installations that appear identical to that drawing. If you want a copy of the drawing and/or a photo or two of similar installations, send me an email. I emailed the drawing to a printer who could reproduce architectural drawings and it cost me about $8 to get a full size print which you WILL need.

geneL3c wrote:Mikeb , Thought I would add my two cents worth , if it would be of help . Our L-16A has a six gal. right side aux tank with the valve at the wing root on a bracket , a bit more substantial than the one in the photo . It works fine inspite of the valve getting a bit stiff if not used regularly , requiring disassembly and regreasing at annual . The only real problem I ever had was when it was first used , it would not transfer until the main tank was REALLY low . Adding a forward facing tube vent on the cap cured the problem immediately . The original factory set up with a 13 gallon main tank met the minimum fuel for 85 HP , just barely . The extra 6 gal is well worth the time and money for peace of mind .

As well you can always add an additional tank in the other wing, giving you another 5.5 gallons.

Actually , now that I think of it , our aux tank is 5.5 gal , not 6.0 and if it is filled to the top , it will overflow in the sunlight , so I only put in 5.0 gal . As to putting in another 5.5 gal , it would put us over the gross weight with two aboard , and my physical limit is just about three hours anyway !