National Aeronca Association Bulletin Board

FAA AC105-2c allows the Sedan to fly with one door removed. As most Sedans only have one door this narrows the choices down a bit!

Has anyone done this? Its originally meant for parachute ops, but evidently is not limited to skydiving. Just found this and was curious if anyone had tried it.

Joe A

Sadly, I don't see the 65-LA Chief listed -- I'd love to fly around with the doors off!!

Years ago: flew a super cruiser often with door off taking pictures. Didn't know if it was approved or not. Always slipped it towards closed side on landing. No problems. JP

The first time I did it in the sedan it was by accident, the pilot side door opened as I rotated off the water, I thought I was done for. There was no way to close the door so I kept flying. After a few minutes I found it to be quite enjoyable and have done it several times since. I have a sedan with the seaplane door which opens onto the underside of the wing. There is very little turbulance inside the cockpit when the door is open.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV_FeKEbBXU

This guy didn't get the memo about not taking Chief doors off.

Hi Joe,
In the FAA paperwork archive for my Sedan, N1241H has a letter on file from FAA in 1966 that allows it to fly "with not more than one door, removed for the purpose of parachute jumping".

For me, that's not going to be much use because I've installed the Leavens Bros door as part of this restoration and I don't have any intention to use the airplane as a jump taxi. So I'll have to re-apply to the [Milwaukee] FSDO for permission to fly with both doors removed, for photography. Is that right? I don't see any way to use the letter on file to fly with one of two doors removed, for anything other than parachuting. Has anybody ever flown a Sedan with both doors removed?

I read AC 105-2C and can see at the end of the document where Section 23 invites the owner/operator to apply for permission to remove the door, but I'm not seeing automatic permission to remove the door of an airplane for jumping.

Appendix 2 does list 15AC as one of the airplanes that may be operated with one cabin door removed, but I get the impression the airplane has to have STC SA4-1593 first. I've never researched that STC--is it something someone owns, that has to be purchased? How does a 15AC owner go about obtaining STC SA4-1593?

Am I understanding AC 105 correctly?

Eric
(Going to run up my engine this week for the first time since the overhaul this school year, getting nervous...)

I think this is a subject that the Feds wish would go away. If you ask the FAA to regulate something they are more than happy to do so. My position is if you want to fly with the door off take it off. You should be aware that it will get noisy,cold and windy when you do so. If the door was that important of part, I'm sure that the FAA would have included it in the required equipment list on the TCDS.
Paul

I like your style Paul!

Eric,

Getting approval for flying with one door off is IMHO about all you are going to get. The AC provides you with an out on removing one door but specifically says ONE door, not both.

If you get this run through and signed, please let us know.

Joe

I believe the levens conversion requires a placard that states that one door only can be opened in flight. I have flown numerous hours in a Sedan with both seaplane doors open. I never tried it during takeoff and landing. During cruise flight all it seemed to do was create some turbulence in the cabin, control and handling seemed unaffected. I think the FAA paperwork is only required to remove the door(s) entirely. If you have the seaplane door(s) they you can just open it up in flight as long as it is only one at a time. Passengers really get a thrill if you leave the passenger door up during a water landing:)

I do not recommend opening the door in flight.(seaplane door) As per my above post this happened to me. The door opened with one h*** bang and latched to the wing. It would not take too many of these to rip the door off in mho. My sedan is placarded to fly with only one door open, if I do this, I make the decision before I take off.

I think Paul has the right idea. Remove door and fly. Since I started flying in 1954 I've seen quite a few doors off things like a 195, super cub, cessna 140 (fish spotter) and on and on. Mainly done for photographs, but sometimes for hunting. I never heard of any problems. Asking the faa is like poking a nest of wasps. Fly on! JP P.S. (Everytime I see Muskoka mentioned I think of Henrys resturant on Frying Pan Island in Georgian Bay, (used to spend summers there) That whole area is really God's Country! )

I went to Henry's last week for a walleye sandwich, awesome!!

Muskokabob

Fly with them off.....as for the FAA, poop don't stink until you kick it.