National Aeronca Association Bulletin Board

I am experiencing some intermittent problems with the right brake of my 1946 Champ. I have the mechanical Cleveland drum brakes. Shortly after purchasing the Champ several years ago, I noticed during a wheel inspection that the wear plates were in fact worn. I rotated the right left brake shoes and earned some time. However, now it feels like the right cam is over rotating when I apply the brakes really hard. I am considering having the metal inserts on the Cam wear plates (A7210 in Aerona service manual) welded to repair the wear. Does anyone have, or know where I can locate the specs on the metal insert?

Guess no one is going to respond to your question, Bob and I'm not sure how to answer it so I'll stay out too. I have the lousy Good Year brakes on mine (lousy in the sense of trying to find parts) and I've pretty much decided that if it gets to the critical point regarding parts, I think I'm going to bite the bullet and go with a hydraulic Cleveland kit. Safe Air, I believe, used to have one that was STC'd (?) Of course, that would be Wag Aero now. I think I will be selling my Cherokee 140 (have someone pretty interested) so that should help the $$$ situation.

Question for the group: is/was the Cleveland conversion kit for Champs that was offered by the former Safe Air STC'd ??? or is it necessary to get a 337 .
Regards,
Mike Berg

Mike,

The Cleveland converstion kit for Champs was STCed by John Roscoe of Safe Air Repair. The STC number is SA507CH and is now owned by Aero Fabricators Inc. I just looked in my Wag Aero catalog and WOW do they know how to charge for the kit. I think I'd call them and see if I could buy just the STC (probably can't) and then scrounge for the parts.

Don,
It seems that Safe Air had both a toe brake kit and a heel brake kit (which I don't mind at all). However, I see (if I'm looking the same place as you) that Wag Aero only sells the toe brake kit and STC for $2700. I think Joe quoted me a price once for the toe kit of around $2500 and it seems that the heel kit was about $1000 less. It sure wouldn't be brain surgery to make up a heel brake kit using available parts, but doubt that it would be easy or possible to get a 337 on it. Especially, since a kit is already available under a STC. Kind of have us over the barrel in that sense.

Mike,

I just looked up on one of the last brochures I got from Safe Air and it says, CLEVELAND DISC BRAKES & WHEELS FAA-PMA Hydraulic conversion kits for heel or toe. I'd call Wag Aero and order one. If they don't make it ask why not. They bought Safe Air out and they were making them. Let us know what happens.

Don,
I don't intend to change the brake system right now as what I have (Good Year) still works OK......but..... when I can no longer find parts then I'll have to consider going to a hydraulic set up, I guess. The old Good Years aren't that bad when everything works right and is adjusted properly. They don't seem to stop quite as well as the shoe type though, which can make for some hairy times on the ramp. Besides, I need to $ell $omething in order to make the conver$ion.....like my Cherokee .
I'll check with Wag next time I call, though.

Also, looks like we're getting away from Bob's brake problem (the orginal post) Maybe someone else can help him....how about it, guys??

I've been away for the last 2 weeks but maybe this will help some. Bob I’m not completely sure which parts you’re talking about but i have a clue. I also have the same problem, but my cam is still in acceptable condition, void of any serious wear. Here is my fix for the situation, and has had good results.

On the brake shoe, the metal part that holds the brake pad, look at the end that rides on the cam. On mine there is a machined notch cut out, maybe 1/4 inch long and 1/8 inch deep. (I assume this is where you're talking about the metal wear plates) I use a piece of phenolic as the buffer for wear. Over the years I tried a couple different methods to attach it (3M 1300L, epoxy, etc...) but found the best is JB Weld. It seems to take the vibration, abuse and oil bath the best. Cut the phenolic so that it's over size in width and height, but can just fit in the opening on the brake shoe, secure it in place and allow to cure. Next, after 24 hours or so, mill down the width of the phenolic so it fits into the recess of the cam. It becomes kind of time consuming now but you have to sand the height of the phenolic down so the brake doesn't drag.



This maybe more confusing than help full.... give me a call or email

nkh

Thanks Guest,

I'd like to discuss the phenol fix with you more. I assume you must remove the worn metal insert first in order to replace it with the phenol insert. I'll have to look closely at the inserts to figure how best to accomplish the removal.

Hey Bob, when i bought the the Champ, the previous owner or A/P had shims of thick metal in place and not secure by anything except pressure from the return spring. After having them fall out a couple times, we discarded the metal shims and started with the bonded phenolic idea.

Give me a call @ 770-616-2179 (cell, Eastern Time) and would be happy to talk about it. And I'll see if I can get some pics to help illustrate the concept.

Nathan_K_Hammond (AT) hotmail.com

nkh

Sorry about the "Guest" on the previous post....it's all the computers fault !!

Bob,

Talk to Paul Agaliotis about your brakes. I was having problems with my brakes until he went through the brakes from top to bottom. Now they work great and it didn't cost very much. I was like you about my brakes, wanting to junk them and just buy the STC set from Wag-Aero. Now, I have no interest in new brakes. If you decide to opt for the new brakes, let me know and I'll buy your old ones!

Interesting discovery. After speaking to several people regarding the sticking right brake problem I was experiencing and removing the wheel and inspecting the brakes, I discovered the probelm was a simple one. Talking to Paul Agaliotis reminded me the best process is to start with the simple stuff first. I took another real hard look at the right wheel and landing gear and discovered the rubber tubing, I had installed over the cable to prvent cable wear, had worn and was actually pinching the cable at the lower through lead. Removed the rubber tubing and problem solved. Thanks for all the help.