I am rebuilding an L-16A and i'm looking for the best way to change from a C-85-8 to a C-85-12F. I want to keep the same motor mount and cowlings. I would like to install a light weight starter and alternator which should fit with the standard mount. Thanks in advance for any help.
Bill
L-16A Engine
L-16A Engine
Carolina Aeronca Pilot
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Paul Agaliotis
- Posts: 2589
- Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 18:49
- Location: San Martin, California
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Re: L-16A Engine
Bill,
As far as Continental is concerned the dash number only indicates modification level. Both engines are treated as the same model.
The -12 will fit the mount and clear the firewall with no problems. Depending on the starter and generator used, you may need to let the engine sag some to remove them.
The flange engine will position the prop about 1/2" farther forward than the taper shafts. Just something to keep in mind if you need to make cowls.
Paul
As far as Continental is concerned the dash number only indicates modification level. Both engines are treated as the same model.
The -12 will fit the mount and clear the firewall with no problems. Depending on the starter and generator used, you may need to let the engine sag some to remove them.
The flange engine will position the prop about 1/2" farther forward than the taper shafts. Just something to keep in mind if you need to make cowls.
Paul
Mailing Adress : Paul Agaliotis 2060 E. San Martin, San Martin,Calif. 95046
Re: L-16A Engine
Bill, here's a picture of the engine installation with the Sky-tec starter on my L16A. This is with the short mount. Mine is a 0200 engine which might be a little different room wise but it almost looks like it would be necessary to move the engine out to remove either the mags or starter. I opted not to have a charging system. Apparently mine had a 85-12 installed at some time with the long Delco starter as the firewall had a 'dishpan' but I closed it off when I rebuilt the firewall as the 'dishpan' was made of aluminum and I didn't think that made a very good firewall with the gas tank right behind it.
Hope this helps!
MikeB
Re: L-16A Engine
Mike,
Thanks for the picture. Your installation looks good. Does the Relay below the starter come with the starter as part of the conversion kit KCST2? The Sky-Tec unit in aircraft spruce (p/n 07-00721) only mentioned Starter, Push button switch, Wiring harness and a gasket. Also what do you plan to use for a battery? Since L-16s come with no electrics,what kind of paper work and log book entry do you plan to use for just the starter?
Bill
Thanks for the picture. Your installation looks good. Does the Relay below the starter come with the starter as part of the conversion kit KCST2? The Sky-Tec unit in aircraft spruce (p/n 07-00721) only mentioned Starter, Push button switch, Wiring harness and a gasket. Also what do you plan to use for a battery? Since L-16s come with no electrics,what kind of paper work and log book entry do you plan to use for just the starter?
Bill
Carolina Aeronca Pilot
Re: L-16A Engine
Bill, I copied much of Tim Juhl's (on this site) paperwork. I haven't got final approval yet but not sure my IA guy has sent it in either. This basically mimics a 7EC system. I used a 25 Amp Concore battery and a 150 Cessna battery box because I already had the box, relay etc. Some use the Oddessy battery and I guess no box is necessary for that battery. The starter does come with approved paperwork but still needs to be run through on a 337. The starter relay is part of the starter installation. I have another relay on the battery box just furnishes currect to start the engine. Once the engine is started the electrical system is shut off because I have no charging system.
MikeB
MikeB
Re: L-16A Engine
Bill , With all due respect to the previous suggestions , the C85-12 engine is not approved for installation in the 7-BCM / L-16A or B according to Aircraft Specifications A-759 . The only -12 engine that IS approved is the C90-12 according to " Note 4 " of the Aircraft Specifications , and include 7BCM , 7CCM ,7DC , and 7EC when done in accordance with Aeronca/Champion Service letters No. 13 , 14 , 15 , or 56 . Also , as you can see by the previous photo , installation of the -12 engine with the " short " -8 mount makes it virtually impossible to access the starter or mags without moving the engine forward off the engine mount . Using the -12 " long " mount would require a new top and bottom cowl , and may require additional approval .
Unless you have some sort of special relationship with your local Flight Standards District Office to get an easy Field Approval , or can find a Supplementary Type Certificate for the installation , you're looking at an uphill battle to get the C-85-12 approved . The current generation of FAA inspectors show a very definite reluctance to grant Field Approvals.
I would suggest that if you have an IA you can work with and he can find a Designated Engineering Representative to " approve data " , you may be able to get a Field Approval based on a previously approved 337 . As for Continental considering the -8 and the -12 engine as the same , Continental does not have the authority to approve engine installations .
Unless you have some sort of special relationship with your local Flight Standards District Office to get an easy Field Approval , or can find a Supplementary Type Certificate for the installation , you're looking at an uphill battle to get the C-85-12 approved . The current generation of FAA inspectors show a very definite reluctance to grant Field Approvals.
I would suggest that if you have an IA you can work with and he can find a Designated Engineering Representative to " approve data " , you may be able to get a Field Approval based on a previously approved 337 . As for Continental considering the -8 and the -12 engine as the same , Continental does not have the authority to approve engine installations .
Re: L-16A Engine
Hi Gene,
I decided to follow Bill Pancake's advise and buy STC#SA232SO . In addition to changing a 7AC from a C65-8 to a C85-8 or C85-12, It also can be used to "Change Aeronca model 7BCM from a C85-8 to a C85-12".
Thanks, Bill
I decided to follow Bill Pancake's advise and buy STC#SA232SO . In addition to changing a 7AC from a C65-8 to a C85-8 or C85-12, It also can be used to "Change Aeronca model 7BCM from a C85-8 to a C85-12".
Thanks, Bill
Carolina Aeronca Pilot
Re: L-16A Engine
Bill,
Sounds like you found good advice from Bill Pancake. My problem was that I couldn't find a 85-12 engine anyway. Everything was either overpriced or a core with no logs so I went with the 0200 and the Wagner STC. I did get 337 approval for battery and starter installation. After flying my Champ with the 65 (no starter) into Oshkosh a couple of years ago I decided I needed something with a starter. Too many folks and too many airplanes around to hand prop by myself and I finally found someone to sit in the cockpit and hold the brakes while I propped it.
As far as moving the engine for access with the short mount. Rather than take it off the mounts I think it would be easier to remove the mount from the firewall enough for access although it would be necessary to probably unhook lines and cables, etc.
Mikeb
Sounds like you found good advice from Bill Pancake. My problem was that I couldn't find a 85-12 engine anyway. Everything was either overpriced or a core with no logs so I went with the 0200 and the Wagner STC. I did get 337 approval for battery and starter installation. After flying my Champ with the 65 (no starter) into Oshkosh a couple of years ago I decided I needed something with a starter. Too many folks and too many airplanes around to hand prop by myself and I finally found someone to sit in the cockpit and hold the brakes while I propped it.
As far as moving the engine for access with the short mount. Rather than take it off the mounts I think it would be easier to remove the mount from the firewall enough for access although it would be necessary to probably unhook lines and cables, etc.
Mikeb