National Aeronca Association Bulletin Board

Well okay, it's not mine but I wish it was! I figure with all the political talk was making everyone depressed like me, so a quick story was in order.

Many of you have probably seen the Eastern Airlines DC-7B that has been flying around for the last year. A buddy is the company Check Pilot and in fact his son (23yrs old) just became a type rated captain before SnF. So while down at SnF we got to shooting the bull at lunch, tell stories and what not on Sunday, when he offers a seat on the flight from Lakeland back to Miami. My mouth hit the floor as I shuffled my schedule around to make the flight.

The original plan was for Glenn, the new captain to sit left seat and me right seat, but that got scrubbed about an hour before engine start when a company captain needed a check ride; so we both got bumped. While it would have been really cool to fly it, walking throughout the cabin and flight deck during the flight was just as good.

The pics aren't as good as I hoped for; I actually raced to walmart and bought a camera just for the flight.





















nkh

Cool Pix, Nathan. I probably flew as a passenger in one of those in my younger traveling days. I Know in a DC-3, DC-6, C45 (Beech 18), C123 (thanks to Uncle Sam) for sure......age is showing ??????

MikeB

Good for you Nathan.
That's the plane that was parked at the St Paul airport for years and years. I got a chance to see the inside when they were working on it to fly it south for restoration. I took a bunch of pictures then, but I don't have access to them right now.
I remember all the green interior, seats, carpet and walls. They even had the original sick sacks in the seat pockets. It's good to see it fly again instead of rotting away on the ground. Glad you had a good time.

What's the fuel flow on those 4 big radials?

Mike

Great pix Nate--my qualifications are expired at the moment but they are good for all three seats. Got over 4500 hours in them but not under that livery. Did you get to do the leaning and recover the BMEP? Nose trim and power on touchdown--little short on elevator with those R-3350's engine sticking out and basically the DC-6 horizontal/elevator. One of my old steeds is sitting out in Joe's territory. I assume they were using real reduced power with 100LL and the "save the engine campaign"...

Doug

Hey Nate you fit in that plane a little better than the cub.

Chris

500gal the first hour, 400gal/hr after that.

Grumps, I figured you had some time in it. Don't remember the numbers exactly, but I want to say 180 BMEP on T/O and 140 in cruise. I was in the forth seat on the flight deck most of the flight, and during takeoff, so it was hands off for me. I glanced at the gages on T/O, but to be honest started getting concerned as we ate up 6000' of 8000' of the runway and still weren't off yet. Not to mention the F/E was going like mad flipping switches and setting power. I'd never seen such a circus!

Chris, I could fly my Champ or Cub to and from Alaska about 3 times with the fuel it burns in the first hour. But damn it's a sexy beast!

nkh

Nathan K. Hammond wrote: I glanced at the gages on T/O, but to be honest started getting concerned as we ate up 6000' of 8000' of the runway and still weren't off yet. Not to mention the F/E was going like mad flipping switches and setting power.

nkh

Any explanation for the poor T/O performance? I assume the a/c was relatively light, which ought to let it practically jump off the ground unless they were really babying the engines.

Nate
They were using reduced, reduced, reduced power on take off--your takeoff is predicated on MAP and RPM and then you set MAP for cruise and then lean from the BMEP peak setting reducing it 10 BMEP and then recovering that 10 BMEP with manifold pressure. Then then the F/E really gets busy during icing conditions if the air intakes had screens--then you go to alternate fuel conditions and the mixtures controls are played like a piano. Most R-3350's had the carb intake screens removed after a few years, You could set meto power by looking out the window a night and watching the torching flame from the PRT's reduce to a glowing blue flame. Some of the best flying and learning experiences anyone could have. When I started as an F/E(long before FAA regs became lawyeresse) I was given three take off and landings and got to fly every third leg. In time then F/O and then Captain. Many years ago there was a low pass rejected landing at airport you frequent with a DC-7 on a recurrent ride--I am told...

PS--The Champ has better takeoff performance..{:>)

That is sooo cool,,,,,,,,,,

Dennis

Kyle; like Grumps said, they were using a reduced power setting. But I was told every climb out is very shallow, like 200fpm. He said it's to keeping the PRT's (Power Recovery Turbine) spooled up. Think of it like a Turbo charger that is geared into the accessory case as apposed to a inlet turbine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo-compound_engine Frank also said the shallow takeoff gets the attention of Feds because their use to seeing normal climb outs. They assume the DC-7B is over gross even though it climbs out like that when empty. By the way Frank talked, made me think he's had the Fed problem quite a few times.

Grumps, that's cool reading stories like that. I'd love to get a type rating to learn all the cool techniques; something about having to man handle an airplane around rather than fly-by-wire. The engine analyzer was cool; never know they had something like that back in the 50's.

I kid you not; riding in her wasn't like any other airplane I've flown in. It was more like making love; the way the engines roared, and you felt the airplane rhythmically pulsing as the props were ever so slightly out of sync. The whole experience was truly humbling.

nkh

Nathan,
I understand all the parts about "it's like making love" except the "slightly out of sync" . Our course I'm old....... but I don't remember that part . Anyway, great photos!!
Mike

The PRT (Power Recover Turbines) have quill shafts that are attached to a hydraulic coupling on the crank--each PRT produces approx. 100 BHP (Brake Horsepower). The ignition analyzer was a neat necessary thing-- the DC-7 flight engineer after settling the takeoff power looked over his shoulder and watched the ignition analyzer--mainly looking for a shorted secondary which could mean a cylinder failure on the way. The ignition low voltgage primary lead to a high voltage coil and a short secondary high voltage lead to the spark plug. Comparing the R-3350 compared to the R-2800 was like comparing an Indianapolis type race car to a stock car. Back then in flight engineer school you felt lilke you were learning to build the airplane from scratch and then build a box to put it in--not how to prgram a computer as nowadays. BTW, the hydraulic coupling for the PRT's to attach to the crank were manufacurered by now defunct Fluid Drive Corp., in Holly, Michigan. Don't know what engines Frank's 7 has but suspect the are Easterns R3350-972TCEA-3. Delta had R3350-972DA-2 or DA-4. 2880 BHP for takeoff. Max take off for two minutes--2900 RPM, 234 BMEP, 53.0 inches MAP. METO (Max Except TakeOff) power was 2380 BHP, 2600 RPM, 43.5 inches MAP. An old DC-7 pilot never loses his notes or memories. Hope you weren't bored.

Doug

PS--the PRT's are powered by the exhaust all the time -- suspect Franks was climbing shallow to keep them cool--they can trash an engine if abused. Also rapid takeoff throttle movement can get the fuel controls out of sync- The R3350 has so much torque available that ham handed pilots advancing the throttle to fast can torque (twist) the accessory shaft and get the two fuel injection pumps out of sync. Engine has carbureator (master control) for air and two fuel injection units connected by a sync bar. In all my hours had to shut down only one engine. But did three engine ferry a number of them while in the training dept. (Another story)

Nate,
I got a ride in something very similar (DC-6) from Ank, AK up to Kotzebue, AK a few years ago with Northern Air Cargo. I got to jump seat so I was able to see alot that was going on. Between the left seat, rt seat, and FE, they seemed pretty busy! Snyc. the props was pretty cool. It was the first time for me in a big multi eng radial plane.
Other than the plane smelling like fish, it was a great flight up and back. Would like to do it again........

Doug,that's too cool! I'd love to swing by one Saturday and listen to your stories.

Jeff, how'd you swing a seat on the -6?

nkh