National Aeronca Association Bulletin Board

Doesn't seem to be much going on on this forum and now 2 or 3 days ahead with pretty punky weather. Therefore, I decided to see if I could get a little information on special mods to 11 AC aircraft for the purpose of maximum takeoff performance. What approved (read STC'd,PMA'd etc) fixes have been done to Chief's ? How about slatted wings, big engines, wing tip mods, anything. There must be some of the members who have some knowledge of such things. If there can be a SuperCub surely a
Roaring Ronc or Champion Chief must have been visualized by someone.

By the way, there is a video making the rounds on other boards of a Stinson 108-3 crash in Bruce Meadows Id. illustrating the challenges of Density Altitude. Sad story but a lesson for everyone to relearn.

Dale

PS- I didn't post a link because it was difficult to make them work on my iPad but it is easy to find

Dale,
Keep an eye out for a 8KCAB mount and throw on a IO360 and C/S prop. That should make it climb! Might even go 90mph.
Paul

I posted on another thread that there is a guy in Lubbuck Texas with a Chief for sale with a 115 HP 0-235 and STOL wing tips. He should be able to provide some insite.

There of course is always a Blueprinted Don Sword C-90 or Don's Dream Macine Stroked C-8. I am about to get another Chief, this time with the Wagner STC and an 0-200, but I would prefer the Custom C-90.

Bob

Tips do nothing but make huge blind spots.

More horsepower doesn't do a lot. More HP means you have to carry more fuel and more weight, which in this airframe doesn't do much without a gross weight increase, which isn't legal. The FAA requires a minimum fuel for each HP and the
larger engines in this airframe just make it heavier. A C85 is wonderful, anything more than a O-200 isn't really working as well as you think and you have a single place heavy airplane. A properly flown A65 will get into a lot of small length fields.

1. Get a climb prop. Keep your engine tuned up and use it often.
2. Install VG's on your wing, which is the one thing you can do to get STOL performance out of the plane that actually
works.
3. Enjoy the Chief... if you want a Super Cub, get a Super Cub.
4. Ignore all those who claim wing tip mods did this or that... if I spent $1200 I wouldn't say it was a waste of dollars
either. All the independent flight research doesn't show any real gain, but the VGs really do work.

I have a 115hp Chief. It will fly circles around a 65hp chief . If I put vg's on,it still would only be one circle. I myself would not waste the money on vg's. Buy fuel and really learn your bird or Buy HP.

I can't speak much for a Chief although I'm rebuilding a 1948 11CC Super Chief right now with 85 horse. On the other hand, my recently restored L16 (7BCM) with the Wagner 0200 STC is a good performer....take off and climb wise. I regularily see 800 fpm on climbout if I hold the airspeed around 65. As far as speed goes it seems to settle somewhere around 90 mph maybe a bit more on a good day. Part of the problem is the STC called for a Cessna 150 prop which is 69 X 50. I think a longer prop would give me better performance but would probably have to be 'tweaked' and that's an unknown, too.
I think a light Chief (or Champ) with an 85 is probably the best all around combination but they will never be speed demons, too much drag overall.

Mike

I can also speak for a 100hp 0-200 champ. Had one this year. The 115hp will out do it. The 69 inch prop is no help. The 115hp runs a 74x44 prop. My 115hp chief is lighter than my old 100hp champ. If had to build one from having had a few. First I would take a chief over a champ and then I would put a Lycoming 0-235 in it. Now all I need is a turbo 210 or a turbo super viking.

Look up the weight of a C-90-8 as compared to an A-65. You will be surprised. They take metal OUT of the cylinders to get the higher displacement. With a C-85, a stroker kit will do the same thing.

In 300 hours with my C-90 7CCM I have seen an average fuel burn of less than 4.8 gallons per hour. The stroked C-85 in my Chief got about 4.9.

With a seaplane prop I can get two 200 pounders up easily and still climb at a great rate. The VGs slow me a little, but help with getting into and out of fields under 900 feet.

With 13 gallons in the nose and nothing in the wing, I am happy with 2 hours of endurance.

Just don't add a lot of extra weight. I decided not to switch to a -12 in the Champ with the accessory case, starter, battery etc. and have the added advantage of no electrical system, hence no Transponder Requirement.

Ciao - Bob

My champ had a recently overhauled 85. HP with starter, transponder, etc. it got off WELL, and was alot more fun than a 65 HP. It only had the one gas tank and became a pain in the a.. When flying distance as many airports were closed or had no gas. The most fun was the Citabria 150 HP I flew alot before I went LSA. HP DOES make a big difference as does the correct prop. Same if you fly a J3 and then get in a Super cub. BIG difference! I would think the performance of the chief and the champ is primarily the pilot rather than the design, HP being equal. JC.