National Aeronca Association Bulletin Board

What is the authority to convert a 7fc to a 7 ccm? I checked the TCDS but no luck. Service letter maybe?

Thanks, Dennis

I found a STC to convert from tricycle to conventional gear. SA3697NM

Owned by Donald M Burt
4027 S. 275th Place
Auburn, Wa. 98001

Is anyone familiar with the STC or Mr. Burt?

There is another STC on record but it was for one specific serial number.

Dennis

Dennis,
About the only thing to do is the conversion to the 7EC configuration. Was there a specific reason you need to have it a 7CCM.
Paul

Paul, It already has the C90-8f (CCM) rather than the -12 engine (EC). So, what authority do you use to get it to an EC? Then convert to -8, maybe? I'll go back and look at TCDS and SL.

Dennis

Well, we found an approved 337 providing for the conversion to a 7EC buried deep in the papers. So we have a "legal" conventional Champ. Now to justify the -8F engine.

Champion Service Letter 56 provides for converting a 7AC to a 7EC with either a C90-12F or a C90-8F engine thereby implying that an EC can be either a -12 or a -8. Or is there another way?

Dennis

Dennis,
Continental considers the engines the same. The dash number only indicates the modification level. If you use the electrical systen it becomes a major airframe alteration. The -12 with blockoff plates would be a minor engine alteration, making it a -8 WITH provision for starter and generator. The front of the overhaul manual has a paragraph about the different types.
Paul

Thanks Paul, Sounds like a -8 in an EC is no issue, just a log book entry which was done when it was converted.

Dennis

Dennis,
That's the way I handle it. If you buy a C85 from Continental, the -8 has no provision for starter or generator, while the -12 has the starter and generator installed. This is by Continental's definition. So the -12 with no electrics would be considered a -8 with provisions for electrics. Never had any issues or concerns, log book entry.
Paul

My 7CCM started out as a 7AC, was converted to a 7DC, then to a 7CCM, first with a service letter and then with a log book entry in Canada and when brought back into the U.S. the inspector passed it with those entries, the Citabria front adjustable seat and a few other modifications and it was issued an new airworthiness certificate. My Seaplane door was field approved against a past 337 with a much different door latch, but a field inspector in a New York field office, so in some cases, I think it all depends on who you talk to and who you get. That same field inspector allowed a finagled change in MGW to allow what at one time was a 7DC with the increase, back into LSA range. Go figure.

Bob

Dennis wrote:I found a STC to convert from tricycle to conventional gear. SA3697NM

Owned by Donald M Burt
4027 S. 275th Place
Auburn, Wa. 98001

Is anyone familiar with the STC or Mr. Burt?

There is another STC on record but it was for one specific serial number.

Dennis

Don's phone number is 253 520 4128

Bob,
The GW will be adjusted up or down with the modifications being performed on Standard Catagory aircraft. Not so with the LSA aircraft, once increased cannot be returned to LSA specification. Lucky fo us the LSA manufacture is the only one that can approve an increase in GW.
Paul

Paul - I like the way you look at things.

Some J-3 guys won't even use a flanged crankshaft, because the type certificate doesn't have a "-F" on the authorized engine. Most try to interpret FAA thinking in the most restrictive way possible.

What I've found is the FAA will never tell you what is allowed. But always tell you what is prohibited. So the way I see it, if it specifically is not probibited, it is allowed. The FAR's are written in this way, and if it's good enough for the FAA it's good enough for me.

The problems start when the ASI's give opinions, in place of regulations.
Paul

Yes Paul, you are correct and I knew that. The funny thing was that this particular inspector (wrongly) let this happen.

Guy up state had a 7DC without the No-Bounce Gear.
Added the No-Bounce Gear, which allowed him to select or not select an increase of MGW from 1,300 to 1,350 pounds (no longer qualifying as LSA) Made a log book entry and change to his weight and balance.
Got older and then removed the No-Bounce and deduced that without it could not leave the increased No-Bounce gear, so he reduced the MGW back to 1,300.
Later he added the No-Bounce Gear and did not elect to increase the MGW that time.
This inspector told him (in writing) that it was OK then to fly it as a 1,300 MGW LSA. Sure if he had an accident or other problems there would have been all kind of issues. If you think about it, it would make sense though, but as we all know a lot of things that the FAA does, doesn't make sense.
Plane was sold with a W&B showing 1,300 to a guy now flying it under LSA rules. We had a long chat.

East Hampton, one of the airports I fly out of is having issues now in that the FAA has officially stated that it would not enforce the restrictions created by unexpired grants on the airport that should require it to stay open for another 11 years or so. The locals are using that as a way to get the town to close the airport or severely restrict it and the pilots association is trying to get the FAA to enforce what should be enforced. Things were sure a lot different when I started flying some 55 years ago.

Bob

Once the grant assurances stop being enforced, we will lose a lot more than West Nyack. My airport will be a shopping center the minute government restrictions are lifted. Our only protections are grant assurances and environmental set-asides. We are at exactly 50% of 1977 operations, with ten times as many airport employees, and five times as many FAA inspectors.

From a purely economic perspective, general aviation makes very little sense any more. I will hate to see it go - actually, I probably will go first.

Difficult to find actual rankings, but I believe my airport is in the top 15 of GA airports, with 502 average daily operations. Most days, My Cub students and I can demonstrate that we were 10% of average daily ops.