Newest Aeronca owner - but I'm not sure about it...

[softlanding1]

I just closed on a deal to buy a nice 7AC. I had been looking for a good LSA category plane for a few months. Couldn't wait to get in and fly it! I went up in it for the first time yesterday - with an instructor, and the thing humbled me like no plane had before. I'm thinking I've made a BIG mistake. I thought that transitioning to this type from a Cherokee would be a challenge, but not impossible. Anyone out there who has gone through this? How long did it take to get comfortable? Any tips?

[Roger Anderson]

Fear not. You're just going through some additional training that will now make you a real pilot. You just have to learn a new set of skills involving the use of rudder in coordinated turning and develop new skills in how a taildragger aircraft both lands and takes off. Keep in mind that Champs were the primary training aircraft of choice for years. New students were soloing in 8 to 10 hours with no previous flying experience. You will probably need about that long to reach a solo level also. Nothing wrong with having learned in a Cherokee, but you will have to undo some learning before you will really start to catch on to the taildragger requirements. And then you will strut around proudly, and suddenly start to have some fun and get some satisfaction with your landings (well, some of them)...instead of the same old boring ones. Seriously, it will take you a few hours and you will get the hang of it. Those 10 hour students did it. If it make you feel any better, I took an FAA FSDO guy up in my Chief. He learned back when in a Piper Colt. After 30 minutes of effort, he was a sweaty mess. He said if he had learned in an Aeronca, maybe he would know what a rudder is for. Well see you down at the Aeronca convention in Middletown, Oh in June. roger

[big chief 48]

Hi there. I have the perfect story for you. When I got the chief many years ago, I couldn't fly it for a few months. I spent that time taxing it around and getting what I thought was a feel for the airplane. Then came the day of the first lesson. The instructor wanted to start out with high speed tail up taxi practice. We almost ground looped it a few times, and I'm talking 99% screwed. I went home almost in tears and realized I would never be able to fly my plane. The next 2 lessons were not any better. What was wrong??? 1. never start out with high speed taxing to get a "feel" for the airplane 2. by chance I discussed this with another instructor and he taught me a whole different technique. We took off full throttle to minimize the swervies. It takes time to learn to get ahead of them. We made the approach but did not land, 10 feet off the runway and keep everything square behind us. After 3 or 4 of these, we just backed off the throttle keeping everything the same and then landed quite effortlessly!!! Confidence is everything, and mine soared. This may not be what you are experiencing, BUT KEEP AT IT!!! A friend of mine was very poorly coordinated, but after some time and a few scares he now flies fine. He said the same thing, one day it just clicks. keep at it and do not give up!! hope this helped

[Mnflyer]

Hi just as Roger said its a new type of flying and in a few hours you'll get the hang of it, and once you do I'll bet you really like it the Champ is a great airplane to fly. Simple, really nice flying and great visibility problay one of the easiest taildragger there is to fly.
Nothing to worry about we all went thur it just takes practice. Congrats on the new plane have fun

[softlanding1]

Wow...thanks for the encouragement! It was clear from the first time I touched the plane that the rudder was going to play a big role in my aviating from now on. The plane probably doesn't have bad adverse yaw compared to similar models, but compared to the Cherokee, it's a handful. I never knew how hard it was to fly straight and level. The instructor I was with did start to work on the low passes over the runway. It helped. I'll keep you all informed as I progress. I hope to get to Ohio in June!

[skyking3286]

I transitioned from a Cherokee to a Chief.
It took about 25 hours to feel comfortable, 50 hours to feel confident.
After 75 hours I was wondering what the fuss was all about. Until you hit those milestones, stay out of winds over 8 to 10 mph. It's a light
plane with not much mass to surface area. If you wouldn't fly an ultralight or RC airplane in the wind your seeing at the airport, you probably should wait for more experience to fly an Aeronca. Remember people have ground looped them with under 10 mph Xwinds, so be careful. Careful until you get experience always pays off. Expand the envelope carefully.

My hints:
Airspeed control is important. 55 mph over the fence. 60 mph on final.

Tires inflated to 12 to 14 psi will really help on ground handling.

Look at the far end of the runway, keep the tail in line with the spinner
at touchdown. Yaw is the important control, followed by pitch and then by bank. As long as the tail is following the nose and the wind keeps going over the wings, you're fine.

Yaw is very good in the plane, it will teach you rudder pedals which the Cherokee had no use to use for. Pitch was more sensitive, ailerons lighter but not as sensitive. You'll come to see how much flying they engineered out of the Cherokee.

Feeling in flare is that you are really flying the wing all the way to the ground. The Cherokee was like a truck with ground effect. When you were done flying it was really done. Aeroncas still want to fly. Keep flying them until you are at walking speed. PIOs were a problem for me, more so than being behind the airplane. Treat the rudders like eggs are under them. Quiet feet ready to act quickly. Also, for the first hours don't worry about keeping it exactly on the centerline of the runway. You will vary, probably only a couple of feet, but it will feel like a mile worth of weaving from your perspective. Keeping it under control is important, but a little weave is normal when learning. Just keep it under control and don't let it get away. Better to have a gentle weave than mashing the rudders all the way to the stops and getting behind the plane.

Saying all that, it's a great plane once you figure out who the alpha dog is between you and it.

[David Johnson]

I would like to add my encouragement to the other posts! You will get it! If us Rednecks in the South can do it, anybody can! Real Taildragger folks will encourage you. When I learned to fly in a tri gear, it was OK. But the old tailwheel planes opened up a whole new experience. If I only had tri gear planes to fly I would probably not still be involved in aviation. These old birds have charactor. It's like the difference between a Honda Goldwing and an old Harley. You will become aware of what your plane is doing in ways you never imagined. Both on the ground and in the air. You will learn to fly by feel, by looking out the windows. Sure the instruments help, but listen to your butt. Use all your senses. I look back on my tailwheel transition as a very neat time in my flying history. And you will too. I think it was the most fun I have ever had flying. Flying gave me the confidence to tackle lots of other things in life. You will also learn a bunch tinkering on your Champ. Maybe the neatest thing about old airplanes is the people you meet.....Keep us up to date, David J.

[Dusty]

I realize that we're probably all saying the same thing, and sometimes writing just doesn't come out right - mostly when it's mine - so, take this for what it's worth...

Perhaps the hardest part of learning in any sort of slightly different airplane is knowing when to fire your instructor. High-speed taxi: time to fire him. Reduced-power takeoffs: perhaps one of the most useful things I did.

Flying the runway is good advice, but you should be at 6 inches, not 10 feet.

Fly the damned airplane. Once you get that figured out, if you're curious, take a peek at your airspeed indicator. Whatever it says might even bear some relationship to what the airplane is doing. Don't count on that. Get the wings level on downwind and keep em that way until you flare - the speed will take care of itself. If anything, nose over a bit (70 or so, if you must look) if you're having trouble in the flair - that will give you a lot more time in ground effect.

Everyone has a slightly different technique, but be ready to mash the rudder ALL the way to the floor, and get on the brake while you're doing it. You shouldn't need that while you're training, but it would be a damned shame to wreck an airplane because you read something about being nice to your rudder pedals on the internet. And, if you're looking for more rudder, you should most likely also be trying to cram the throttle through the firewall - a little (or a lot) of power will get you out of most situations.

I think the revelation in my training came when an old-timer told me that an airplane never does anything by itself - anything that happens was happening because I made it happen. My very little tricycle time suggests that's not always true, but it certainly is in Champs. Good luck out there!

PS - Skyking - I'm curious what size tire you're recommending those pressures in. I sure couldn't keep 26" Goodyears from eating valve stems (without some help) at those pressures. Sounds like an accident waiting to happen to me.

[Roger Anderson]

PS - Skyking - I'm curious what size tire you're recommending those pressures in. I sure couldn't keep 26" Goodyears from eating valve stems (without some help) at those pressures. Sounds like an accident waiting to happen to me.

I'll second that opinion about lower tire pressures. However, I'm talking about the standard 6.00x6 tires. I find that the most forgiving tire pressures are 11 or 12 lbs. I usually inflate to 15, then let the tires do their magic air loss over time to about 10 before I reinflate. I fly off pavement and find that at 15 lbs and certainally anything above that, the landing handling gets very much more sensitive. And of course, the number one tip from the top in landing a taildragger is "stick in you lap" after landing....and hold it there. In a three point, full stall landing (as opposed to a wheel landing), after you've plunked down, be sure, be sure to have the stick fully back and keep it that way. Assuming you're not going around, regardless of the swerving and so forth, the stick fully back will usually salvage any mess I can make otherwise. If you've fully stalled the aircraft , the stick should have been in your lap at point of touchdown anyhow. Just be sure to keep it there. In the excitement of a landing, it's easy to relax back pressure on it and begin to let the tail get light, which can compromise directional control. Now doesn't this sound like a lot more fun than the Cherokee? Congratulation on your new Champ. I'm envious. I have a Chief, but had 2 Champs...and miss them. roger

[joea]

Softlanding (a real name would be nice, we are a friendly group here),

Learn to be right on top of the rudders on landing. I used to teach my students to have "happy feet" and stay ready to act fast during landing and anytime the airplane is not tied down. Wear a pair of shoes that let you feel the rudder pedals with your feet and allow you full movement of the pedals.

There is a time to be gentile and there is a time to be right on top of things. The faster you are going the more effective the rudder will be, so jamming the rudder to the stops at 45 might not be good, or might be just what you need. It takes experience to know which and thats what your instructor is there for. Keep the airplane going down the runway and thats a big help as is the above comment about winds. Until you get some time under your belt, be very cautious as to the weather conditions you will fly in.

Also if you are flying at a busy airport and they seem to be rushing you to get out of others ways, especially off of the runway, go somewhere else. DO NOT hurry trying to stay out of others ways, you have as much right as anyone else to be flying. Trying to hurry to get off of the runway to let a Bonanza or Twin land is not needed. If the tower is getting things too rushed either go elsewhere or tell them you are a student and need more space in the pattern.

Last really important tip for you is that since we do not have any idea where you live (putting it on your profile or signature helps) if you have the chance to find a grass runway and fly off of it for a while, DO IT. These old airplanes were made to fly off of grass or soft runways and really shine doing so. Grass is much more forgiving and helps build confidence, while you are building flight time.

Regarding the tire pressures, that is what I run in my tires but I am running the 7.00 X 6 tires, not 26 inch tundra tires like Dusty is up in Alaska. Anything over 14 psi in the standard sized tires makes the airplane too "skittish" for me. Anything under 12 is too low (once again for me) in standard sized tires but I fly off of a hard surface runway. Not much grass in Arizona!

Also if you are running a inflatable tailwheel (like a scott 3200 like many of us have) keep the pressure up above 50 or so. Keeps the tire from rolling off the rim.

I have flown an Aeronca for almost 30 years and love the old birds. I also fly a fast jet for a living but always come back to the nice simple style of flying that the Aeronca's allow. You have come to a good place for advise and pls feel free to ask any questions you might have.

Joe

[Jody Wittmeyer]

Went through that this spring with a nose wheel pilot. He bought a champ and was scowling, since the insurance company said 10 hours dual before he could take passengers. He figured 2 hours. In the end, he said 10 hours just barely got him semi safe. It will come! Keep both feet on the pedals at all time! On the ground, you control the rate of turn with the OPPOSITE pedal! Start the turn with the pedal for that direction, then you will find yourself with constant pressure on the opposite pedal. Once you start a turn, it wants to keep turning, until the tail is in front. Just remember, with a tricycle gear, you always have to make it turn, with a tail dragger, you are always trying to stop it from turning. ALWAYS!
you'll get it. patience.

[joea]

One thing that Jody brings up reminds me. Get someone who knows taildraggers and confirm that your tailwheel is working correctly. More airplanes have been lost due to a bad tailwheel than many other causes.

[Paul Agaliotis]

All of these little put-puts will teach you the joy of flying. The typical pilot taught to fly today learns the mechanics of flight. You can be rated in some of the big junk by simulator time only! This little plane will teach you to fly by feel, sight , smell and sound. Once you have learned this little guy will be your friend. Stay with it!
Paul

[MikeB]

Welcome to the group! I had around 650 hours in a Cherokee 140 before I bought my Champ and I'm sure I had over 50 hours on the Champ before I felt comfortable. Even now after a couple hundred hours in the Champ I still respect landing on pavement, especially with any wind. Grass is much better to learn on. When I was first started landing on pavement I would repeat to myself before I was touching down "nose straight.....nose straight....". Seemed to help. Also, as someone may have mentioned, the rudder pedals are pretty sensative....you can't stomp on them like a Cherokee and get away with it. Light touches seems to be the key.

Good luck....you're going to enjoy the Champ!

Mike Berg

[softlanding1]

Thank you, all of you, for the encouragement. If nothing else, I can see that being counted among the Aeronca pilots is something special. You have really motivated me to work this out. I'm deep into reading "Stick and Rudder", and that has explained a lot.

So, I fly out of Galt airport in northern Illinois (10C). We have an E-W asphalt runway, and a very short N-S turf with a pretty good uphill run to the north. I can always head up to Dacy in Harvard, or to Poplar Grove for more grass-cutting.

Now, the big problem that looms ahead is getting the bird here from Pahrump, Nevada. I will be getting my 10 hours in (like it or not), and then I have to launch across country. That should be "fun"!