0200 What's the thought??

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 13:49

I may have posted something like this before, but what's the thought regarding installing a 0200 in my L16A? I already have the big tail and will have 5 gallon (both sides) wing tanks for a total of 23 gallons. Also, has "no bounce

ha!! " gear. I looked at a 0200 a friend of mine had today. He bought for a Witman Tailwind but never used it. It has been stored for 30 years but always in dry storage. Does turn over, I checked. Logs included. I would most likely go through the engine anyway. Old Slick mags (43???) which I understand probably are obsolete. Will sell it for the core price of $1000 and only if the engine is 'rebuildable'. I understand the annual spar inspection which doesn't bother me and the difference in the engine mounts.

Any information appreciated regarding installation, etc. Also, understand the STC is available from Buzz Wagner ($150). I'm not concerned with trying the keep the L16 exactly 'original'.

Mike Berg

Nathan K. Hammond · Post by **Nathan K. Hammond** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 14:38

Something to think about: Don Swords has an STC that allows for an O-200 case, crank, rods, pistons, and a C-85 cam. The final product is considered a C-85.

nkh

Paul Agaliotis · Post by **Paul Agaliotis** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 15:22

Mike,
That sounds like a great price to me. I would pull the trigger on it.
The 4300 is the current mag. Slick won't even take the older 4000 & 4100 series in as cores.
I might boroscope the engine to determine the condition.
Paul

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 17:46

Not sure about the mags. I don't think they are 4000 as I had one of the those on my old Champ engine (still have it somewhere, in fact). Tried to see the number but couldn't read it exactly, At the price it's not my biggest concern anyway although it would be nice if they were 4300's. At the very least I would probably pull the jugs to check the cam, lifters, etc. Also, to replace the cylinder seals. Have access to a borescope so that's not a problem either. It looks like a nice clean engine from the outside, though. Came off a wind damaged Cessna 150.
While I'd like one of Don Sword's engines, my part time bus driving retirement job (

$

) doesn't allow it (or can you just buy the STC?)

Interesting side line: the guy has the Wittman Tailwind fuselage all welded up and looks good from what I can see of it. Wings are mostly completed, etc. Hasn't touched it in probably 25 years. He will be 70 soon so I expect it never will be finished. Too bad because he had a real nice start on it. Most likely family considerations and work (service engineer for a auto company) got in the way.

Mike

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 17:50

I did pick up the 0200 for $1000 after I pulled the pan and vacuum pump plate to check the cam and lifters. He was honest and wanted to be sure it was worth selling. Also, pulled one jug but it's kind of rusty inside after sitting 30 years. However, everything in the bottom end looks good (what I can see of it). Has about 700 SOH but they didn't replace the cylinders and just ground the valves so think I'm going to buy new cylinders at the very least. I'll work with my AI on this but it can't be any worse than the 'rebuilt to zero time specs' A65 I bought one time.

Talked to Buzz Wagner and the STC to install a 0200 in a 7BCM (etc) is now $250. I thought it was $150 and Bill Pancake said it used to be $125.
Onward and upward

.

Does anyone know what the price of Don Swords 'super 85' (the STC, not the engine) that Nathan described above is? Another alternative and gets away from the spar AD. At least that's what I'm thinking.

Mike

Nathan K. Hammond · Post by **Nathan K. Hammond** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 23:49

I think it's around $300.

He might give it to you; if you buy the cylinders through him. Maybe not...

nkh

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 21:05

Although I'm a long way from worrying about it, what's involved (other than the STC) with installing a 0200 case in a L16 (BCM). As the engine rubber mounts are different, how does it bolt up? I'm guessing I need a different engine mount also and I'm planning on installing a different (shorter?) starter with a total loss system. As I mentioned before, I already have the big tail and no-bounce gear. Also, installing wing tanks for a total of 23 gallons of fuel. Most of my experience is on Champs with A65's so this is new to me. Been waiting for a response from Don Sword regarding the 'Super 85 STC' using the 0200 case. My preference would have been to find a good 85 engine or core, but decided this would have to do, all things considered.

Appreciate any advice or insight. Paperwork would be greatly appreciated if you have any. Contact me off the member list.

Thanks much!

Mike Berg

Nathan K. Hammond · Post by **Nathan K. Hammond** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 00:45

There are 2 way's to install an O-200 on a Champ, regardless of airframe model.

1) Buz Wagner STC; straight O-200 engine and I think you have to use the longer engine mount and longer cowl.

2) Don Swords engine STC & Lasher installation STC: O-200 case with C-85 cam and data plate. Technically it remains a C-85 and uses a machined adapter so the O-200 case mates up with the original mount rubbers. Then use the Lasher STC to install the "C-85-12" on the airframe; unless it's a -8 engine, in which you can use the Service Letters to upgrade the engine.

nkh

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 08:31

First a couple of comments and then a question for Nathan.

I have Buz 0200 STC and Mike is right, the mount is about an inch longer. With the STC are directions for building your own mount which is what I did. The mount however, is for the 7/16 bolts and not the 3/8 for the 0200. So caution here. If you are going to build it, modify the tubing before welding.

Nathan, how do you get a new 85 data plate?

Dennis

Nathan K. Hammond · Post by **Nathan K. Hammond** » Thu May 01, 2008 00:23

Dennis, you can get a new one from TCM Continental, or from an engine shop. I got mine from Don Swords. Other options include eBay, El Reno Aviation, Fresno Airparts or any major engine parts supplier. Once you get it; you'll have to stamp all the information since they come blank. You can do it yourself or have a Trophy shop do it for a clean look.

That’s if you want to replace your old worn out data plate. If you need a data plate, because you built up a motor from parts; then check around the local aircraft scrap yards. They never throw away a data plate! You have to have some documentation of a serial number for that motor, and the only way to do that is find, buy, or borrow an existing data plate and attach it to the new motor.

The principal works the same for airplanes: If I build a Champ from spare parts, exact to original specs, it can become a certified Aeronca Champ if I have an old set of paperwork and data plate from a destroyed airplane.

The FAA wants traceability, even if it leads them into the corner.

Old and new...

Tugaske2 · Post by **Tugaske2** » Thu May 01, 2008 17:38

Mike...here are pictures of a 7EC motor mount modified similarly to a
C-150 with the 0-200 which Mel Smith advised me to and who once held an STC to do this..If one is to use the standard 0-200/C90-14 lord mounts, then one has to make up bushing to take the AN6 (3/8) bolts as in the first picture whereas the standard C90-12, etc are AN7 (7/16) bolts..
Options which I might pursue yet are (1) use the 0-200 lord mounts with the bushings and the longer 7EC motor mount or (2) same as option 1 except to use the shorter A-65, C85-8, C90-8 mount seeing as I have a short skytec starter installed or (3) Use either the 7EC or the shorter 7AC motor mount, take out the bushings, and use 7/16 bolts with the machined pieces that use the ordinary (non lord) mounts as STC'd for Luscombes..I shall see how the cowling fits...By the way the engine is a 0-200 with a new C-90 cam in it aka a C90-14..

jc pacquin · Post by **jc pacquin** » Thu May 01, 2008 22:13

Several years ago I had a trophy winning cessna 140 redone by a master! It had a 85-200 conversion also done by this fellow, parts obtained from Don's dream machine. I had had a 140 years ago and thought "Now then! I shall leap into the sky!" Not so. When I bought it it had 150 hours since major. Maybe it was the prop, or maybe it was just the way a cessna 140 gets off (lousy!) anyway, on a warm day with my wife (110 lbs) and half tanks, you could eat a sandwich before it got to 500 agl. Very dissapointing. Certainly no better than the 7BCM I sold 2 years ago 85 hp, with radio, starter, alternator. It did much better! It had new milinum cylinders and new slicks. Personally, I think you gotta go to a 150 hp citabria to really leave town. Otherwise I'd stick with a well done 85-12! (Humble opinion) Jim Pacquin

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Fri May 02, 2008 11:20

Talking with Bill Pancake the other day, He suggested using the A65 mount with adapters that allow using the conical bushings. Not sure how to go about it or where to get the bushings although I've seen them advertised on the internet at times. I'm a long way from worrying about it at this point

, but tend to solve my problems as things move along, anyway.
A starter would be nice but not the end of the world for me and I don't have the paperwork either.

If someone would be interested in trading a 85 for my 0200 somewhere down the road that might be another option, I guess.

Mike Berg

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:13

Mike,

If I read your question correctly, the size of the hole in the mount is slightly larger than the nominal 7/16 as others have noted. If I recall correctly, the actual size of the hole is very close to 1/2". So I used a .500 (or .498, can't remember for sure) reamer on the mount holes and installed a piece of 4130 (bought from Spruce) with 1/2 OD and 3/8 ID. Worked great. Nice snug fit.

Dennis

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Mon May 12, 2008 10:45

Talked to Don Sword this morning (I had sent him a email a couple of weeks ago, but no reply). Anyway, the aluminum adapters that allow the use of the conical rubbers for the 0200 engine mount are $375 and a PMA'd. I see someone is selling basically the same thing on ebay for $110 but they are not approved.

Anyone else have experience with this and the paperwork by any chance?

Thanks,
Mike Berg

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