Using an Aeronca to Soar/motor glide

flyingfool · Post by **flyingfool** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 09:55

Just wondering how to fly as inexpensively as possible. I was wondering if anybody has experience essentially using their Champ/Chief to soar or motorglide. That is use as little power as possible to maintain level flight with a stall margin, and then use thermals to climb and then go to idle until you find another thermal?

I was thinking that this might cut an A-65 down to about 2 gph. However I was wondering if anyone had done this and whether continually running the engine at a low power setting could cause damage or cause other problems. Should carb heat be used? If so is the unfiltered air for extended periods bad for the engine?

Obviously this motorgliding would be slow. But most times I'm flying for fun and to be in the air, not to get someplace. So just being in the air and using less fuel/cost would be a plus. It would also be a challenge I would think.

SFC Hiatt · Post by **SFC Hiatt** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:14

That will be kind of hard where you live (Wisconsin).....move out there with Joe and you will play with the thermals even if you don't want to.

I believe Mr. Pancake rode some thermals up to the astronaut levels once and spun down over a hundred times.

Roger Anderson · Post by **Roger Anderson** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:17

Having lived in the Mojave and also flown out the several passes in the L.A. area, while owning a Champ, I've experienced pretty good thermal or convective activity. Once, while going out the Banning pass, 3 three sixties got me up to about 12K ft. However, that's was a rare exception in continued lift. I don't think a Champ or Chief would generally be able to find lift that would give it a free ride for more than a few seconds. The Aeronca wing is a high lift wing, but unlike a glider, also a high drag wing. Would be fun, but don't think you'll find much of the necessary lift opportunity.

Nathan K. Hammond · Post by **Nathan K. Hammond** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:27

It can be done; like Chris pointed out, Pancake tells the story of thermalling up to 18,000 to play with a glider friend.

As for running the engine at lower power settings ( <1900rpm) for a prolonged time can start to do bad things. The plugs will fowl out from Carbon and Lead, the oil pump won't run as efficiently, and you can cause some serious heat damage. You'll be better off, climbing up to altitude, then thermal up, and dive back down to get the motor turning again.

True story... we use to maintain the KY Wing of the CAP; one of their missions was High Cap or act as a flying repeater for the Air Guard. One pilot bragged about being able to stay aloft for 8-9 hours in a 36gallon/180hp C172. He didn't brag about us installing a new motor every 2 years at 1000ttsn because of the damage incurred at prolonged periods of low power and high angle of attack.

nkh

flyingfool · Post by **flyingfool** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 09:20

That's what I was afraid of.

Use of autogas would limit the lead fouling and maybesome carbon. But it does nothing for agle of attack and airflow to the cylinders.

What is a "recommended" lowest power setting for an A-65? Above referenced 1,900 RPM.

Most info I read says cruise at 2,150 RPM. But I know my Chief will maintain level flight solo at about 1,200 or 1,300 RPM if I remember correctly.

SFC Hiatt · Post by **SFC Hiatt** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 09:27

I don't remember your Chief maintaining level flight at 1,200 RPM.........maybe with three drops of fuel and a 35 mph headwind.

More like 1700-1800..........but who's counting.

flyingfool · Post by **flyingfool** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:19

I can't remember exactly. But I was surprised at how little power/slow it was. I also think this was at the very edge of a stall.

I heard you sold your Chief but I also read somewhere about you still wanting the PPL so you can fly a tri-Champ. Did you buy a tri-Champ?

SFC Hiatt · Post by **SFC Hiatt** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:04

Now....I'm just muching off a friend until I leave the country again. His Tri-Traveler is to heavy to qualify as light sport. That's the only reason I'm doing my PP stuff.

Jody Wittmeyer · Post by **Jody Wittmeyer** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 14:02

1600 in the champ will usually maintain level flight. Bad on engine though.

Summertime in the midwest, I used to take the champ up to whatever the absolute altitude was for the day. circling the airport on the way up. Then I would shut off the mag switch and pull the nose up @ 45 degrees, hold it and stall, to stop the prop. Would find thermals within a few miles of the airport and play. The lower I got, the closer to the airport I would be. There are days I stayed in the air over 2 hours with out the engine running. I always started a timer when I turned the mags off. Summer thermals were great. Good practice for emergency landings too. Never once missed getting back to the airport. 2 hours this way seemed like @ 15 minutes.

Jerry Eichenberger · Post by **Jerry Eichenberger** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 16:56

You can "play" glider in any powered airplane. Go up on a very calm day, or very early in the morning when there is no convective activity.

Slow fly at 1.3 VSo. Start reducing power until you find the power setting that produces a rate of descent about 100 - 150 feet per minute. This is the rate that most older training gliders will descend in stone cold and dead air.

When you want to "soar", simply fly at that airspeed and power, and go hunting thermals.

Like others have said, you don't want to stay at those power settings for hours on end, but once in a while, for kicks, and for a limited duration, I doubt you'll hurt anything.

Jody Wittmeyer · Post by **Jody Wittmeyer** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 13:42

Pretty spooky, and awesome, sometimes, when the throttle is idle, stick full forward and you are climbing at redline.

shorty · Post by **shorty** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 16:58

Jody Wittmeyer wrote:1600 in the champ will usually maintain level flight. Bad on engine though.

Summertime in the midwest, I used to take the champ up to whatever the absolute altitude was for the day. circling the airport on the way up. Then I would shut off the mag switch and pull the nose up @ 45 degrees, hold it and stall, to stop the prop. Would find thermals within a few miles of the airport and play. The lower I got, the closer to the airport I would be. There are days I stayed in the air over 2 hours with out the engine running. I always started a timer when I turned the mags off. Summer thermals were great. Good practice for emergency landings too. Never once missed getting back to the airport. 2 hours this way seemed like @ 15 minutes.

In the summertime you could always insure that there would be rizing air over the runway,

Jody Wittmeyer · Post by **Jody Wittmeyer** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 19:08

Not much over the grass runway