LSA Certification for A-85 with Starter

[yiasou]

Question: I have been told that if a 11AC has an A-85 engine installed with a starter that it no longer qualifies to be flown as a Light Sport Aircraft. Is this correct? Thanks, George

[MikeB]

The starter is not an issue as far as I know. What is the gross weight? If it's 1320# or less, it should qualify. If it's an 11CC (1350# ??) then it wouldn't.

Mike

[Rick Hadley]

Question: I have been told that if a 11AC has an A-85 engine installed with a starter that it no longer qualifies to be flown as a Light Sport Aircraft. Is this correct? Thanks, George

Like Mike said, it would depend on the STC or paperwork done to install the A-85. If it included an increase in the gross weight to more than 1320 lbs it's no longer LSA-eligible. If it was just done with a 337 without increasing the gross it should be OK. At least that's the way I understand the regs....anyone else please correct me if I'm wrong.

[joea]

Another person in agreement. The only 11 series airplane that is not LSA is the 11CC version. The 11AC and 11BC are both legal.

As well the 11BC came from the factory with a 85 hp engine and its LSA legal.

Someone is giving you incorrect information.

Joe A

[MikeB]

I'm looking at the paperwork to install a 0200 in a 11AC and BC with a starter from Wagner. As long as you stay 1320# or less. I can't see where there would be a problem with a 85 with a starter, battery, etc. Have whoever is telling you that show you the information/regulation. I don't see a gross in this paperwork but the 7AC goes to 1300# with the 0200 which is still under.

MikeB

[joea]

The LSA regs could care less about the starter and battery, its the weight that counts. Even if your STC says you can up the gross weight to 5000 pounds, you can also limit it to 1300 YOURSELF and still be legal in LSA.

[yiasou]

I recall reading in the aviation press that it is the weight at the original registration that matters and that what you do to the AC afterwards does not change that it is an 11AC under 1320 gross wt. - unless you are after intentionally seeking to change the registration, e.g., in this example to an 11CC.

I think this goes along with what Joe is indicating.

I will contact EAA tomorrow and report back here what they had to say.

Thanks everyone,

George

[joea]

George,

What you posted is close.

The original certified weight is one thing, while if you do a modification (STC or 337) afterwards also can knock it out of the LSA catagory.

For instance, take a 7ac or 11ac and install the factory "no bounce landing gear" on the plane. It allows you to up your gross weight. If you do not up the GW or up it below 1320 pounds, then you are legal for LSA. If you or a previous owner upped it to anything above 1320 pounds AND SENT PAPERWORK INTO THE FAA the airplane is NEVER legal again for LSA.

Adding to this, say someone added the above landing gear to an airplane, made the logbook entries and never sent anything into the FAA, is the airplane LSA legal or not? I have had several people tell me that they were in that situation and going to "lose" that logbook (or that page in the log) and keep the plane LSA legal.

The important thing is the original gross weight, and any RECORDED modifications to the airplane that have been sent into the FAA. Thats one reason why its very important to get the CD from the FAA for your airplane (or any airplane that you are looking to buy) to see what has been recorded with the FAA. That tells you what they have on file and what is legal in their eyes.

[yiasou]

Joe, Got it. That was very clear. I will order the CD. Thanks, George

[Paul Agaliotis]

George,
You can't change change the model number, only the manufacturer can do this. You can modify it to any specification but cannot change models.
I would steer clear of the EAA. They have lost their direction. They appear to be seeking regulatory authority not providing any benefits to the members. Try Bob Taylors bunch,the AAA, the're airplane friendly not corporate friendly.
Paul

[joea]

What Paul is referring to is you can take a 11AC and do the mods to make it a 11BC aircraft, but on the records it will remain to be a 11AC. Same to the CC specs, it would remain a 11AC.

Only by viewing the FAA cd on YOUR airplane will you know what they know about the airplane.

Agree with Paul, have not been a EAA member for years. Its more of a commercial venture rather than a group of people who love to fly old airplanes these days IMHO.

[yiasou]

Paul & Joe,

Thanks for the education.

George

[yiasou]

A local A+P did research on this topic for me and found an Aeronca service letter that covers this conversion. It is available at Aeronca.com and is service letter #17.

Is anyone familiar with this service letter and have used it?

Thanks,

George

[joea]

George,

Look at your logs and FAA Cd and you very well may find that this SL has been done years ago. Many Chief's I have looked at or owned had it done in the 1950's.

You can find the service letters here: http://www.aeronca.com/docs/ServiceLetters/

[yiasou]

Joe, This Chief is being restored and the owner of the project is giving me the option of putting on a A-65 or A-85 that he has. When he bought the project the A-65 was the engine that he purchased and that is how it is listed on the registration. I will take delivery of the Chief with the A-85 plated over and will be looking to do the modifications under Service Letter #17 later in the Spring. Does this plan make sense? This is my first restoration. The CD is on the way from the FAA. Thanks, George