Rant!!!

[Red(neck) Barron]

If I ever were to be involved in a firefight, I would hope that it never got so close that .410 birdshot would be an effective deterrent. I want to see large gapping holes, and if it must be closer range then my double barreled 12 gauge Coach gun with 00 Buck would be my choice. The shooter was still trying to fire back when he hit the ground. The autopsy reported 23 bullet wounds, most in the torso and fired by the Iowa State Patrol tactical response team, so they weren't using 22's. Yes, I want all the stopping power I can muster in that kind of a situation.

Sure glad Aeronca pilots are more easy going. Much better class of folks, huh?

[jc pacquin]

I like the 12 ga. pump (Winchester) with double 0, with the plug out. Its impressive in any situation. JP

[joea]

I live out in the sticks, and have pretty alert neighbors; but some terd ripped the ground wire off all the phone poles. After that, I put motion lights on every corner of the house.

Make sure you have clips and magazines for all that ammo; a thousand rounds in a box doesn't help much.

nkh

Totally agree!

Charles, you must have a SUV or high vehicle. They tend to steal the cats from these as they are high enough to get under easily. If I found someone under my P/U it would not be a good ending...

Joe A

[seaheli]

I live out in the sticks, and have pretty alert neighbors; but some terd ripped the ground wire off all the phone poles. After that, I put motion lights on every corner of the house.

Make sure you have clips and magazines for all that ammo; a thousand rounds in a box doesn't help much.

nkh

Totally agree!

Charles, you must have a SUV or high vehicle. They tend to steal the cats from these as they are high enough to get under easily. If I found someone under my P/U it would not be a good ending...

Joe A

Toyota Tacoma, which seems to be the easiest of all. The cat had 251,000 miles on it, probably not worth much!

Protection: Lead spraying with large slugs and psyops!

[seaheli]

The undercover ops dog suit! Try to get by this one, she'll fool ya!!!

Charles

[Kalahnikid]

Bob,
What's great about those weapons, 7.62x54, they'll fire anything you find. 30/30 .308, 300 Win. It distorts the case due to the head space, but you're not thinking about reloading in every circumstance.
Paul

Oh my God that is unsafe, dont ever do that. Do not ever fire any kind of ammunition in a firearm that was not designed for it, you could pay the price with your life. People have been killed pulling similar stunts. Im not sure its even physically possible to chamber some of those rounds in a Mosin chamber.

Now lets say you took a .308 bullet and loaded it in a 7.62x54R case and shot it out of your Mosin it still wouldnt be worth a shit because the Russian 30cal bores are actually just a hair larger than the American 30cal bores. (.311 vs .308) So accuracy and velocity both suffer greatly.

Also as a general rule: people in gun shops dont know what the hell they're talking about 99% of the time.

[Kalahnikid]

I would hope that it never got so close that .410 birdshot would be an effective deterrent. I want to see large gapping holes,

Birdshot out of any shotgun is NEVER an effective manstopper, and .410 loads (even buckshot) isnt a good choice. I dont think it would penetrate the FBI minimum required 12 inches of ballistic gel. The lightest load I would want out of a shotgun is #4 12guage.

Dont forget to include a flashlight with your defensive firearms, these unfortunate social engagements rarely happen in broad daylight. My defensive longarm is an AR15 with attached flashlight, and my defensive sidearm is an HK USP45 with attached flashlight.

[Paul Agaliotis]

My point is,when things are as bad as it gets, I can fire your ammo but you can't fire mine. The Russians are very practical people.
Paul

[Rod]

While in EMS I saw the 12ga shotgun remove limbs, liquefy internal organs and practically decapitate the individuals it was used against. It was the most devastating close range weapon I saw in use.

[Kalahnikid]

My point is,when things are as bad as it gets, I can fire your ammo but you can't fire mine. The Russians are very practical people.
Paul

And Im telling you no you cant. It will rupture the case and possibly damage the rifle. Never shoot any cartridge out of a rifle it wasnt designed for. I dont know where you got this idea but forget it, and you should disregard any kind of firearms advice from who ever told you that.

And if you think this was by design because "The Russians are very practical people" it isnt. The 7.62x54R was designed 61 years before the .308Winchester, and if thats true why did they design their standard issue 5.45x39 smaller than out 5.56x45? The Russians have never planned on using battlefield pick up ammunition.

[Paul Agaliotis]

Rather than getting into a huge drawn out explanation about cartridges, the difference in the head spacing between the 7.62X54 Russian and the .308 NATO is .00118 in. This allows the use of both cartridges in the Russian weapon. If fired the case deforms,you be the judge if you want to fire it. Lots of "wildcat" cartridges are produced by modifying existing brass.
When you get dumped off, you only have what you can carry. The availability of chambering your enemy's ammo is a benefit.
The 5.45x39 didn't come into play until the mid-70's. At this time we weren't a direct threat to them. Anybody else that they were going to engage, were fighting with AK's so ammunition isn't a problem.
The Russians did the same with their mortars, we shot 81mm they had 82mm. They can shoot ours we cant shoot theirs in our tubes.
Like I said the Russians are practical people.
Paul

[Paul Agaliotis]

Sorry, dimension should be .117
Paul

[RickH]

The 7.62x54R is a rimmed case, the 30-06 is rimless. You might be able to chamber a single '06 round, and maybe even fire it in a Mosin, but you'd be left with a club as the extractor wouldn't grab on the empty. The Russian round is physically more closely related to the .30/40 Krag round which was developed at the same time (1891) as the 7.62x54. The 30-06 is actually a slightly lengthened version of the original US 30-03 which was designed to supercede the Krag. The obsolete 03 ammo would be safe to fire in the 06, but not the other way around. Neither would feed properly in the Mosin.

[joea]

While in EMS I saw the 12ga shotgun remove limbs, liquefy internal organs and practically decapitate the individuals it was used against. It was the most devastating close range weapon I saw in use.

After 14 years flying medivac, have to agree.

For home defense, a shotgun is the ONLY thing that I recommend.... well after a .45 auto 1911 that is!

[Red(neck) Barron]

So much for thinking Air-knocker pilots was a peaceful breed.

Way to go guys!!!

So do any of you gunslingers participate in any shooting sports? I do Cowboy Action Shooting. Lots of fun, when I put my Cowboy duds on I'm not the Redneck Barron any more, there I go by Larry Leadflinger. Doing all that shooting is almost as much fun as flying the Champ.