Wing X or Foreflight

[EDGEFLY]

With the advent iPads came the development of affordable "moving map GPS systems" and what is now commonly referred to as EFB's for GA. This was presaged,of course by the heavyweight machines from Garmin and others but these were of more import to people flying much larger aircraft than our Aeroncas and for the most part either "high and fast" flyers or those with a specific business pursuit in their aviatilon endeavours. While many of the NAAs' members may either choose to be more purist in their flying affairs and simply not want anything that modern in their aircraft, others have chosen to feel the need for improved navigation hardware for their birds whether for the desire to make an occasional X-C or to easily circumnavigate controlled or restricted airspace. There is plenty of this in the Eastern U.S. ! Some of these requirements have been met satisfactorily with used and/ or refurbished GPS equipment from the higher and faster or business segment. Beyond that, there are some of us who have found the magical lure of iPads and either Foreflight or Wing X software as a solution to our own version of a need for an EFB (Electronic Flight Bag). It is this group I hope to reach with this message. I am at the point where I need to renew my Wing X subscription or change over to Foreflight. To that end, I have running the Wing X and a trial version of Foreflight for comparison purposes. While I find both software packages reliable and useful, there are differences and I wish to solicit the views of other members, especially if they are using either program while flying an Aeroca type aircraft. Thanks for your input.




Dale

[Richard Murray]

Dale,

I have found myself a conservative and further since I have retired I've become down right cheap. I tried Foreflight (the demo) and loved it. For the x-c flying I do down low and slow I have been using an IPad mini and the Dual Universal GPS receiver. This system hasn't cost me a dime beyond my initial investment, which was nothing because I sold my Garmin Aera 500 while it held some value and used those funds to buy this gear.

I have several other sites I rely on for weather and TFR's and I'm only a wifi connection away from updating everything each time I fly.

Richard

PS They are going all out to make vintage flyers welcome at Sun N Fun. Hope you are still able to make it down.

[jepropst]

I cannot comment on Wing X as I have never used it. I have been using Foreflight for about the last year and a half. I initially chose Foreflight over Wing X because it provided the basic needs that I was looking for at a lower annual fee. Since using it, I have been very pleased with Foreflight. I use an old first generation Ipad without WiFi. I do have a Dual gps and an external WiFi hub. I have a RAM mount for mounting the Ipad in my Champ. I use Foreflight almost every day at home even though I seldom take it in my plane. I have a Garmin 296 in the plane for navigation.
There are several features that I especially like about Foreflight. The first is to be able to see weather radar. Even when zoomed in very tightly, the radar display is very clear. You can add motion and see the direction of weather. As I set at home, I can look out the window during thunder storms and the cloud movement and position seems very accurate. There are also overlays for wind, lightning, flight conditions, etc. The second feature that I really like about Foreflight is the ease of flight planning. You can store your aircraft’s properties in the program so that when you plan a flight it automatically factors in surface wind to forecasts your time and fuel consumption. Flight planning is extremely easy and user friendly and has the rubberband feature common to other flight planning software. The airport directory and current airport weather forecasts is very helpful when planning cross country flights. The map has a TFR overlay feature that is extremely useful, especially in election years. One last item is that the Foreflight staff is very good about providing help. Also, they seem very interested in listening to suggestions for future improvements. They now support “mph” in addition to “km” and they just came out with direction up on their moving map. Their recent map improvement also permits zooming in much tighter than was previously available. You can download and store the often used maps into your Ipad memory, but you do have to update the download every 28 days. You can also download airport directories and if you are an instrument pilot you can download the IFR charts and approach plates in addition to the VFR charts.
While Foreflight does have a moving map, I consider it a backup to my 296. I guess that’s because I’ve used the 296 for so long that its use is “automatic” for me. Typically if I’m going on a trip I’ll plan the flight on Foreflight, Check out the weather, notams, TFRs, etc on foreflight and then enter the flight plan into the 296.
I tried Foreflight on an Iphone but personally found the map and details too small for my aging eyes. I’ve looked at the Ipad mini, but again think that personally the display would be too small for my use. My next upgrade will most likely be to a newer Ipad.
I cannot say anything good or bad about Wing X because I have not used it, but I can highly endorse foreflight.

[Kif]

I agree with John. Been using Foreflight on an IPad 2 and IPhone for only about 6 months in a Cardinal and really like it. Will definitely use it in the Champ. The IPad is WIFI/3G with 32MB and works great by itself with the internal GPS. Have most of the US charts on it even though I don't need them and still have alot of memory left even with ITunes, apps and other things on it. Plan on adding it to my phone plan to use the 3G. I used it once on an airline flight from Peoria, IL to Dallas, TX and tracked our flight on it. It worked great. I had a window seat and it showed 5 meter accuracy. Even showed us on the radial on the Low IFR chart on the arrival into Dallas. It is really like having some of the new technology that is in the newer jets. I haven't used it enough to use it to it's full capabilities but would definitely recommend it but then I have never used Wing X.

[David326]

I use an iPad 2 with Foreflight and really like it. Don't use a mount.

[EDGEFLY]

John,

This really doesn't quite fit under the title but... I took note that you "have a Ram mount for the iPad in your Champ". I have been using my IPad in both a Cherokee and my Chief with a thigh strap. It works fine but I have been keeping it in the landscape orientation. I looked at a couple of commercial products but didn't find what I wanted for a mount in the Chief. I believe there is a little more room for instrumentation in Champs due to the tandem arrangement but.... Have you ever posted a picture of your iPad mounting here on the forum ? If not and you have a pic, I would welcome it here or at my persona E-Mail : tmail51a@gmail.com. I haveusedsome of your other comment in my evaluation of the two software packages.

[jepropst]

Dale, here is a photo of the Ipad, attached to a RAM mount. My Champ is a bit unusual in that I have a shelf in front of the panel for sticky notes.

ipad.jpg (62.07 KiB) Viewed 12216 times

[MikeB]

My IFLY system seems to have a similiar screen and came with a suction cup set up but after it fell down a couple of times I gave up on device. There is a slotted screw hole in the back so I put a screw in the dash (head out with some space) and a piece of velcro on the bottom to hold everything straight. That seems to be the answer. I'm away from home right now but I can post some pictures later if it will help.

I think it's too heavy for the suction cup...obviously.

Mike

[jepropst]

Foreflight has recently added some additional features that makes it even better than before. The moving map can now be switched from north up to track up. This is a great feature and it is very easy to switch from one mode to the other. There is a new map overlay that permits you to display your own personal waypoints. The new moving map has better zooming abilities than previous versions. Another feature is that you can now turn on a feature that displays the extended runways on the moving map. When you pop up the NavLog display and then switch to the edit mode, there is a new “procedures” tab. When you tap it a “traffic pattern” pop up is displayed and you can choose from a variety different vfr approaches to each of the runways. When you select an approach it is added to your flight plan and is displayed on the moving map.
I understand that is a great new terrain avoidance map, but you need an Ipad 2 or newer to use this feature and I’m still running on my Ipad 1, so I can’t comment on this feature.
In the past I would have suggested that the Foreflight moving map was only marginally acceptable as a primary navigation device, but with the rapid enhancement with new features, I think it is only a matter of time until it functions as well if not better than the current aircraft handheld gps’s.

[rkittine]

I just repalced my one Windows 7 Desktop and one XP Laptop with new units running Windows 8, both with touch screens. Much to my disappointment, when I called Jeppesen to get an updated version of FlightStar IFR, which I use to flight plan and print charts, I found that NONE of there flight planning software, except for an app they have for the iPad, supports the Windows 8 Operating System.

Does anyone know of Flight Planning and Chart Printing Software that can run on a Windows 8 platform.

Cheers - Bob

[skyking3286]

Check out Seattle Avionics and the Voyager software. Moving map, charts, flight planning, pretty complete. Works with Win8. Based about a mile down the road from me in Woodinville, WA. They also do the AOPA iPhone app. Been using it for five years.

[rkittine]

Thanks Mark,

I will check them out today. I like my Flight Star and have it on my other computers and will continue to get the update subscription for a while at least, but I was very disappointed that Jeppesen did not set a version up for Win8. Looks like they want to do On-Line Subscriptions (Like a lot of other software developers now) so they can either Rent their software or at least control installations better.

I already have GPS with Overlay Sectionals, but want to be able to plan and print paper charts.

Regards, Bob

[rkittine]

Hey Mark,

Just talked to Seattle Avionics and although Voyager will do all that my Jeppesen Flight Star will do, they do not have a version that will work with Windows 8. They have been working on it but have not been able to fix the bugs yet. Part of the problem is with the touch screen. They could not tell me when they thought they would have it available. They did say that they tried for Oshkosh and obviously did not make it.

I would like to hear what people have to say about the Voyager Software. In Flight Star, I have multiple aircraft configured, do all the flight planning and it allows me to print a trip pack which includes the charts that I need for the trip as well as a printed flight plan ( which I could download to a tablet or GPS, but I have a GPS with built in charts and plates) as well as the form to call or electronically file the flight plan and has weather if connected to the internet.

The catch is that I originally paid $299.00 for the IFR Version software and the annual subscription rate I have been paying for updates every 56 days, is over $300, though the 3 times a year, is only $189.00.

The Voyager Software is $50.00 and the annual subscription is $99.00.

So before I go to the internet based Jeppesen Windows 8 Flight Planner, I would like to hear if I should wait for Seattle to work out the bugs in their Windows 8 Version of Voyager and get it when they start marketing it. I can live with the system on my Windows XP Laptop and Windows 7 Desktop that I still have.

Regards and Thanks for your Help and Input - Bob

[Richard Murray]

Bob,

Having come from the computer industry I can identify with your problems when you purchase a new operating system.
They have been doing this to consumers since the inception of the PC. Apple users have their own store to spend dollars on +improved and updated products.

I personally would wait on the upgrades if you really like the software. You already have the equipment to continue to use what you have and there is probably a way to save the data in an electronic format to permit its use with a new tablet. A PDF printer utility is the first thing that comes to mind. 'Solidata' is one that I have used over the years and it is a free download (freepdf.exe). It works just like your paper printer does except it produces a PDF document and saves a tree.

Richard

[rkittine]

I am going to wait regarding either Jeppesens or Voyager. Thanks for the note. Right now it looks like I can use the Web Based Jeppesen Flight Planning Software under my subscrtiption and on any of my computers. Seems to pretty much work the same way.

I worked for IBM while in college and my dad was with them from when he was 20 until 71. My masters degree is in Computer Science, but I did not keep all the Punch Cards, which is what I worked with in those days!