Champ paperwork needed

[joea]

Anyone know of any Champ paperwork around?

Was contacted by an Aeronca owner whose paperwork was tossed by the widow when cleaning out a house. He bought a project but has no idea what the serial number or registration number is, or was. He does not want to scrap a very nice Champ!

Thanks,

Joe A

[Dennis]

Joe, I had a similar problem. However, I had a Bill of Sale, serial number and tail number. My Champ had not had an airworthiness certificate since 1955. I was advised by fsdo to contact a DAR. $800 bucks and an inspection, I had an A/W certificate.

Bottom line, before you scrap it, talk to a DAR.

Dennis

[MikeB]

I'm still trying to come up with some definitive paper work on my 11CC Chief. Have the CD, data plate and was able to come up with a replacement airworthiness certificate but no logs on either the engine or airframe other than what's on the FAA CD. Having said that I've pulled the oil pan and rear cover and what I can see of the cam, lifters, gears, etc. look good. Cylinders are clean and have a nice cross hatch and run at least 75/80 on cylinder leakage. Oil pressure steady at 30 psi at idle and above so I suspect that's where the regulator is set and holding. New Slick mags and Bolduc carb rebuild.

Mike

[Paul Agaliotis]

Mike,
There are some specific FAR's that cover the creation of new log books. Let me look them up and find some kind of solution. I have done this in the past and it's not too much of a problem.
Paul

[Paul Agaliotis]

Mike,
There are some specific FAR's that cover the creation of new log books. Let me look them up and find some kind of solution. I have done this in the past and it's not too much of a problem.
Paul

[Paul Agaliotis]

Mike,
I did some research and by using Advisory Circular 43-9C para. 12, you can re-create the missing logs. In a nutshell you need to find ANY record that can show total time on the aircraft/engine. Maintenance sheets, repair orders, 337's on file, anything. You then make a statement about what you did and establish a new total time.
You will need to show AD compliance and make a log statement to this. Not applicable to many of us are the life limited components. These need to be replaced if you can't find the records. It's not as bad as you think.
Paul

[MikeB]

Thanks Paul,
I do have the FAA CD which has some documentation and times. At least on this one the repairs match the 337 forms. Located a couple of former owners and able to establish some times. Of course taking the bird down to the frame and documenting inspection and rebuild is of some value in the new log book. Engine is not of concern at this point. It's too bad they stopped with FAA inspection forms which gave total times etc. way back when. I can establish a time of around 1400 hours and maybe 800 on the engine but most are quite awhile and several owners ago. I'm pretty sure I know where the log books stopped about 200 miles from here. I may need to make a trip and see if waving cash and buying drinks helps.

As I've said before I owe you a "frosty one or two" whenever we can get together.

Mike

[Paul Agaliotis]

Mike,
You can estimate the average time operated per year by any other records you can find. This will only work for Part 91 aircraft. Once you get into the larger 121 & 135 stuff, documentation takes on a life of it's own.
As soon as I slow down a little I'm going to do some traveling. But that will be about a year and a half out. Retiring from UAL in December of 2018 and started instructing at my local college this past August. Once I leave UAL I'll have the summers off. Hope you can make Middletown in 2018 and we'll do our best to find the bottom of those bottles.
Paul

[bladd]

I have "some" paperwork available. It came with a bare fuselage I picked up at auction. The problem is when I tried to register it in 2010, the FAA sent me a letter saying the registration was canceled in 1994 as destroyed/scrapped. The letter says its under review until I respond, but that was 7 years ago. They wanted proof of the current condition of the aircraft. I did see the N number had been reassigned. Not sure if this is something useful or not.

Brooks

[Paul Agaliotis]

Brooks,
I have a couple of planes I have bought over the years with the same problem. The latest is a Stinson that I bought from an insurance auction. They deregistered it as scrapped because it was economically unfeasible to repair so they totaled it and auctioned off the remains. Now the certificates issued to me by the FAA say I can repair anything using their information, economical or not. I argued this to the FAA and found they cannot refuse you an airworthiness certificate. The biggest problem is keeping the N number. Just build the plane and get a conformity inspection and you're done.
With all of the 9/11 stuff the FAA was supposed to clear up the registration records. They couldn't find about 1 million planes on the registration database and they looked pretty lame in front of Congress. They started to purge the inactive planes and destroyed/scrapped planes, this is what's causing our problem.
Because the FAA's mandate is safety, they have determined the safest aircraft is the one that doesn't fly. Like I've said before " if you ask the FAA to regulate they will".
Paul

[MikeB]

I just went through an interesting things helping a local widow that I went to high school with clean out her hangar (husband was a pack rat). Helped her sell a wrecked Bonanza and a couple of homebuilts that would never fly. Also, in the hangar was 46 Stinson 108-1 with complete logs (but) the bill of sale was a handwritten note "so and so sold Stinson NXXXX to so and so on such and such a date" (many moons ago). She (not knowing) filled out a bill of sale to a buyer who sold it to another buyer who sold it to another buyer (you get the picture) and now it's somewhere down south and the poor guy is trying to reregister it even though it apparently was deregistered years ago. Basically I only considered it a parts plane anyway.

Mike

[Paul Agaliotis]

Mike,
It's important to keep the plane on the FAA record. The only person that can create an aircraft is the Manufacturer. Once the identity is lost the airplane is lost. An easy way to understand this is that a person can buy all ACA factory parts to build a 7ECA. Even using 100% factory parts you have an experimental aircraft. Only the manufacturer and build 7ECA's, but if you had an identity it could become that aircraft as a 7ECA, standard category. That's a real simplistic way to look at this problem, but illustrates the importance of maintaining the aircraft on the FAA database.
Paul