Mechanic says a new ELT is needed... Suggestions?

[Paul Agaliotis]

You lose one Congressman in Alaska and you create a complete industry. I think you would be safer with a cell phone.
Paul

[Ed Clark]

Dennis,

Sorry if my comments offended you. It wasn't clear to me that you were kidding or just softening your comments by saying you were in the original post.

I am somewhat sensitive about this since I have spent a career risking my own life and those of the Rangers working for me to help others. Increasingly with cell phones in hand people venture into wilderness settings without the proper equipment, training or common sense. They substitute the phone for all that. We actually get lost party calls for help and when asked to describe where they are, they will give us GPS coordinates.

As for aviation accidents, from my perspective, like Tim says, the information provided by an ELT helps us to narrow down an already risky search. The newer ones are way ahead of the old for all the reasons already covered above.

As for tips...if your in a remote area it's better to stay put and let the ELT do it's job. You need to conserve energy, stay warm and let the system work.

If your near civilization, are mobile and can handle the terrain, move out but leave a note on your wreckage so we know where to look for you.

Many die doing circles around their own wreckage.

Above all don't depend on a cell phone as your means of calling for help. They don't usually work too far from a road. They also mostly provide a false indication of your location since the 911 call will go to the dispatch tied to the cell tower you hit..not always the area your in.

It's hard to see people on the ground when your conducting an air or ground search. Your airplane, especially if brightly colored makes finding you easier. If you fly over remote areas, learn survival skills and have the equipment you need. Even if you don't file a flight plan, be sure someone knows your route and ETA.

Here's some pictures of a crash site from a few perspectives, it will graphically illustrate that the aircraft gives you the best chance of being found. We had 730,000 acres to search with no information other than departure and destination points. With 9 helos searching it took 5 hours to find the wreckage and more to find the pilot.

We want to find you, but need every advantage you can give us. Despite the cost you may one day decide that it was worth every penny.

[Dennis]

Gee, maybe I should use more smiley faces in my post. Ed and Tim, I certainly did not mean to step on anyones toes, especially those who must impliment SAR.

I am reminded of the old joke, and I am sure I will get it wrong but it goes something like this: One person has a good idea. He passes it to an engineer to design as the engineer understands it. The engineer's idea of the design is given to a shop who make their minor changes for manufacturing purposes. The final product is given to management to sell. Management places their spin on the product for marketing purposes. Viola, the final product no longer resembles the initial idea. (Lots of smiley faces here I mean to offend no one).

Here is a thought: If the new 406 ELTs are, indeed, that much superior to the existing ones, i.e., more reliable, less prone to accidental activation, then it should follow that the cost of SAR operations should also decrease. As Tim said: "The vast majority were non-distress." If that is true (and I am sure it is), then why should not the government provide the new 406 units, free of charge, to all aircraft owners? Does not the FAA give windsocks to airports, free of charge? There is no doubt that windsocks are proven safety items. Is it because the new units are a good idea (no disagreement here, see above) but not field proven? Plus, and this is my gripe, it is easy to "make" the aircraft owner accept the financial risk through an AD. I wonder how many of the new 406 ELTs one could buy from the savings associated with the total cost of one false alarm SAR operation?

Quite frankly, I like to see something proven in the field before I invest in it. Remember the STS lorans? I bought one of the first ones. I now use it for a boat anchor.

And I will not ask Tim why the couple thought they needed an ELT on the bedside table.

A couple of passing comments:

I do not subscribe to the attitude that "if you don't have the money to fly, you should not fly." We should work to make flying more affordable. The aviation industry will be better served with a larger "pie", not a more expensive smaller pie. Sport aviation?

And one last comment: My family is not the yardstick for a go or no go flight. If a flight is safe for me then it is safe for my family. Or conversely, if a flight is unsafe for my family, then it is unsafe for me.

Dennis

[Dusty]

Just a couple of random comments having mostly nothing to do with ELTs:

The CAP has a long history of not finding people up here. I really believe that ELTs give people a false sense of confidence that they'll be rescued if they do something stupid, but the data don't seem to support that. <b>Don't believe that an ELT makes you and more likely to be found.</b> If it does in your case, yippee for you. If not, you won't be disappointed. Tell a friend where you're going, always.

A satellite phone is a much better safety device, assuming you're conscious. About everyone I know (including me) has spent a couple days somewhere waiting for the weather to clear. Having the phone lets you call off the search and let your family know that you're OK. It also makes it easier not to fly of into the scud in the first place.

Don't forget your comm radio, either to initiate or call off a rescue. Even in remote corners of AK you can often get airliners on ANC center,123.45, or 121.5.

Does not the FAA give windsocks to airports, free of charge?

Apparently not. There was (is?) an FAA employee suing the state because of a defective windsock. Google cache is all I can find:
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:h6o ... =clnk&cd=4

Great idea, but what makes you think the FAA is really interested in safety as it concerns small GA planes?

[Dennis]

Dusty, with respect to the windsock, I guess different FSDOs have different polices. That is a big surprise!

I was checking Spruce for availability and pricing of a new 406 ELT, about $1300 with whip antenna and $1800 with a rod antenna. There were others listed but only one, Artec G series, specifically mentioned operation at 406.025 MHz. I may have overlooked one.

So how many planes are in the U.S. general aviation fleet which are airworthy? Maybe 100,000 planes or so? In nice round numbers, we are talking $130M to $180M. I propose the government revise their budget, eliminating the study of the mating habits of the western fox squirrel, and use the money to provide 406 ELTs to the general aviation fleet.

Dennis

[Tim Juhl]

I apologize to you all for dragging this topic out, but it is a subject that I believe is worthy of discussion. Like Ed, I've "been there" and been touched by the experience....

First of all, I don't think any SAR people would be upset by any of the comments I've read so far..... you all make good points. I'd like to address a few of them.

1.) CAP's poor record finding aircraft. No argument there.... In CAP's defense, in most of the cases I've dealt with the pilot shared the major portion of the blame. Almost every missing aircraft search I've been involved in (not generated by a satellite picking up an ELT) was the result of a pilot flying into weather conditions that he/she was improperly trained for or flying an aircraft that was not properly equipped. In most cases there was no ELT signal (poor design-poor installation-damage) and it's not hard for a plane to disappear. We've got a lot of forested areas in Michigan and I've been over wreck sites that were hard to spot from the air even when you knew where to look. In almost all of these instances the occupants died on impact, a fact we knew before the search began. If the crash was survivable, there was often an ELT signal to lead us to it. Try explaining that to the anxious family members clinging to any hope that their loved ones may be alive.

I've been involved with missions that covered thousands of square miles. We do our best to narrow things down but often the pilot doesn't leave us much to go by. We had one search that went on for two weeks in the UP that involved 30 search aircraft and 100+ base staff and ground teams. Much of the UP looks just like Ed's photos except our guy went down in the winter in his white TriPacer (flew into a blizzard). The ELT had been removed for "repair." What SAR expenses did the air force pay for? Gas.....a lot of the costs came out of the pockets of the volunteers. BTW the missing plane was found by hunters 8 years later.

I believe anything that you can use to alert rescue forces is great, but cell phones don't work everywhere and not all of us have SAT phones. In the survival courses I've taught I try to get people to think about the resources they have available and how to make use of them. It is a sad fact that sometimes people perish even with the resources for survival at hand. We had a helicopter make a "precautionary" landing in a snowstorm (in a wooded area in the northern part of the state) and when found, the pilot was sitting in his seat....frozen. In his flight bag was a cell phone and yep, it had a signal. His radios were working and he wasn't too far off a commercial air route. Experience shows that some people are unable to focus on the simple tasks that can often save their lives.

2.) Lower cost of SAR - I'm sure there will be a cost savings and a faster, tailored response. All good.

3.) Recommendations on how to improve chances of survival • file a flight plan or leave detailed route information with someone who will raise the alarm if you don't show up • use FSS and Air traffic control services where available • dress for the conditions anticipated. • Carry a lightweight sleeping bag or wool blanket (even in summer people can go into shock.) • Signaling devices - I carry flares, smoke, pocket strobe and a signal mirror along with spare batteries for the ELT • water/wind proof matches • knife & cable saw • 100 feet of parachute cord • Bandages and antiseptic. With the exception of the sleeping bag, the whole kit fits into a package the size of a gallon paint can and only weighs a couple of pounds.

4.) Hopefully as the chageover date approaches competetion will drive the prices of the new ELT's to a point we can all live with. Based upon my experiences, I'm not impressed with the current generation of ELT's and will welcome the new technology. That said, I hope that none of you are ever in the position to need the services of SAR forces, but if you are, I hope you are prepared to survive until found. My motto: "Plan-to survive."

Tim Juhl

[Ed Clark]

I would agree completely with Tim on the advice he presents with little to add. Studies have shown that survivors share common traits: Pre-planning, training, proper equipment, a will to live, the ability to focus under pressure and make use of all available resources, flexibility and creativity.

As for SAR cost. Federal agencies and for that matter the state and county ones I work with all have cut back on budgets. Our federal agency does not have a SAR budget per se. Each park pays for it's own equipment, training, and overtime out of it's own budget. The number of SARs relative to aircraft are low, aircraft are better maintained than other forms of recreational equipment due to the FAA regs, a simple fact. Most of our SAR missions involve users who are not required to have proper training or equipment. So the impact to agencies of this is nil, the impact to the survivor of the air mishap is very high.

The technology of the new units is already in-place at reasonable cost for boats, and landbased outdoorsman. They are called PLB's personal locater beacons. They have already proven themselves. The cost for a GPS enabled unit is in the $500-$700 range at present. They weigh about 12 oz.

FYI, non-GPS enabled still works well, however to get the close to location accuracy of the GPS enabled unit it will take a few passes of the nearest satellite. The GPS enabled units encode your exact location in their signal within 5 minutes, thus enabling the satellite to get your location within feet on the first pass. As already mentioned they are encoded with your units serial number and that is registered with the SAR agencies along with contact information for your family/friends so that we can get more clues to work with...hence the idea of filing a plan with others.

As Tim points out, with higher demand the prices will fall.

[Dusty]

In CAP's defense, in most of the cases I've dealt with the pilot shared the major portion of the blame

We are entirely to blame, every time. If pilots didn't make mistakes the acronym SAR would have no meaning to any of us. However, CAP's job isn't to not let pilots wreck - it's to find those who do.

How do you know there are no survivors before you know there's been a wreck?

SAT phones aren't that expensive. What's it worth to you to not have your family spend several days a year wondering if you're dead? To be able to just sit weather out with no get-there-itis because your family knows where you are? To be able to call for parts, 100 miles from the nearest road, instead of a little unplanned winter camping followed by a "rescue."

My airplane may be better maintained than my snowmachine (probably not, but it does have more extensive logbooks...), but guess which one was manufactured in 1946 and has 10,000 hours on it? Guess which one breaks more? Guess which one I can get further away from civilization quicker with? Guess which one's stranded me more times? Guess which one's harder to follow?

Point is, I have absolutely no trust that CAP - or any other agency - will find me with an ELT - a gizmo that I have to buy and lug around presumably because of their influence. I'll have little more faith when the gizmo gets more expensive - errr, "better" - until I've actually seen it work in practice, not just in theory. However good the technology, there's still the human element.

I sincerely hope that I'm wrong and the new ELT's never misfire, always go off when they should, never get smooshed up in the wreck, don't have leaky batteries, and generally change the way we all think about a missing airplane. We'll see.

Tim or Ed - do any of the sat/gps elts have voice capability?

[Ed Clark]

Dusty et al,

Just to clarify, the FAA is not the driving force behind the switch. Actually the US is about 10 years behind the rest of the SAR world with this technology. The international SAR body made the switch a good bit ago to solve the reliability, inaccurate location and false alarm problems. It's been a huge success. So much so that most countries are not going to support 121.5 mhz after 2009 in their satellites.

So, we are coming in late.

For more information about the various systems check the following:

http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/emerbcns.html

For a comparison of the old and new systems see:

http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/406vs121.pdf

I don't know of any that have voice capability. I carry a portable Icom A24 for that purpose.