While I probably could have accomplished it myself, I took my L16 airframe down to my AI's to have new rear longerons welded in as he has to sign it off anyway. However, apparently something was lost in the translation and it wasn't completed the way I wanted so I'm going to finish the job myself, I guess. I have two questions: Is there a sure fire way of getting the old lindseed oil out of the airframe before I start welding it (OX/ACL)? and (2) Is it possible to run a smaller (5/8st) piece of tubing through the cluster or is the cluster shrunk down from previous welding?
I haven't cut any tubing yet.........still deciding what to do and how to do it.
(Don't know why that smiley face comes up....it should read "five eight's")
Thanks,
Mike
Welding Tubing
Welding Tubing
"If God had intended man to fly He would have given us more money"
Mike,
FAA AC 43-13.2B will have everything you always wanted to know about the regulations on welding tubing. If you do a search on the internet I believe that you can download a copy off of the FAA.gov site for free.
You can run tubing inside the old tubing and then do "rosette" welds to stiffen it all up, but thats all in 43.13. Believe that the current version is ".2b" but not sure. When I was an active A&P it was 43.13.1a but thats been a while ago!
As far as burning out the old oil, by the time you get the tubing anywhere near warm enough to weld, the old oil will be gone.
Also, as someone who has welded a lot of fuselages, do a lot of tack welds all around the area you want to weld, then go back and secure everything. Tubing will warp and move around if you weld one joint completly then attempt to move to another joint and so on.
Joe A
PS fixed your "smiley face" on the post by adding the "th"...
FAA AC 43-13.2B will have everything you always wanted to know about the regulations on welding tubing. If you do a search on the internet I believe that you can download a copy off of the FAA.gov site for free.
You can run tubing inside the old tubing and then do "rosette" welds to stiffen it all up, but thats all in 43.13. Believe that the current version is ".2b" but not sure. When I was an active A&P it was 43.13.1a but thats been a while ago!
As far as burning out the old oil, by the time you get the tubing anywhere near warm enough to weld, the old oil will be gone.
Also, as someone who has welded a lot of fuselages, do a lot of tack welds all around the area you want to weld, then go back and secure everything. Tubing will warp and move around if you weld one joint completly then attempt to move to another joint and so on.
Joe A
PS fixed your "smiley face" on the post by adding the "th"...
Joe, I should have mentioned I do have a copy of 43.13 (newer one) and I understand the procedure, including the rosette welds. I was mostly concerned with the old linseed oil in the tube which you addressed. When he was welding the rear longerons in, I wanted the inner tube to go through a cluster as the tube in front of it had some fairly serious pitting on it. However, they "fish mouthed" behind the cluster so I'm going to have to solve that problem by splicing in another piece (mostly kind of ticks me off as I even marked the tube............oh well!!).
As I always say "just trying to do things right"
.
Thanks,
Mike
As I always say "just trying to do things right"
.Thanks,
Mike
"If God had intended man to fly He would have given us more money"
Mike,
I find that if my rear end is going to be sitting in something that I tend to do better work than many of the others that might be tasked with the job.
As far as putting an additional tube through a cluster, you might be able to do that but it would all depend on the previous weld and if there was a good clean cut on the "fishmouth" portions as well as any slag on the bottom of the area. I would give it a try and if it did not work then might put new smaller tubing inside from where-ever possible.
joe
I find that if my rear end is going to be sitting in something that I tend to do better work than many of the others that might be tasked with the job.
As far as putting an additional tube through a cluster, you might be able to do that but it would all depend on the previous weld and if there was a good clean cut on the "fishmouth" portions as well as any slag on the bottom of the area. I would give it a try and if it did not work then might put new smaller tubing inside from where-ever possible.
joe
Pretty much what I've been thinking. I've just procrastenated cutting the tubing until my new tubing comes from Aircraft Spruce. Probably going to try and build some kind of a jig to hold everything as straight as possible before I start the welding process. Hopefully I can get somewhere inside the cluster to get some support anyway.
Also, ordered the covering material, etc. today from Superflite. I thought about using a different process for this job, but I've got quite a lot of material left from previous jobs so it kind of seems like a waste not to use it. The wings are on 'hold' until I can get a 'pro' (who knows these old timers) to look at them.
Ain't it fun!! .
Mike
Also, ordered the covering material, etc. today from Superflite. I thought about using a different process for this job, but I've got quite a lot of material left from previous jobs so it kind of seems like a waste not to use it. The wings are on 'hold' until I can get a 'pro' (who knows these old timers) to look at them.
Ain't it fun!!
.Mike
"If God had intended man to fly He would have given us more money"
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Paul Agaliotis
- Posts: 2589
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- Location: San Martin, California
- Contact:
Most of the tubing was in pretty good shape, other than someone (unknown 
) had cobbled in short pieces ahead of the lifting handles on both side for whatever reason. I didn't like the looks of it so we replaced the longerons for about four feet ahead on both sides. If I had it to do over again, I'd probably take your suggestion, but at this point I'll have to be satisfied with what's been done. Also, I was concerned about having to build a complicated jig. I'm sure when it's finished it will be safe but I'll be smarter next time. Of course at my age this might be my last project........Ya! Right!!
Mike
) had cobbled in short pieces ahead of the lifting handles on both side for whatever reason. I didn't like the looks of it so we replaced the longerons for about four feet ahead on both sides. If I had it to do over again, I'd probably take your suggestion, but at this point I'll have to be satisfied with what's been done. Also, I was concerned about having to build a complicated jig. I'm sure when it's finished it will be safe but I'll be smarter next time. Of course at my age this might be my last project........Ya! Right!! Mike
"If God had intended man to fly He would have given us more money"
Paul,
Are you talking about replacing the lower longerons from just behind the aileron bell crank bracket to the tail post? If so, how do you keep everything straight? Do you have a jig? You must also have to weld in the horizontal stabilizer lower lugs too, which I believe go into the tubing.
Interested in how you keep everything in line.
Thanks,
Mike
Are you talking about replacing the lower longerons from just behind the aileron bell crank bracket to the tail post? If so, how do you keep everything straight? Do you have a jig? You must also have to weld in the horizontal stabilizer lower lugs too, which I believe go into the tubing.
Interested in how you keep everything in line.
Thanks,
Mike
"If God had intended man to fly He would have given us more money"
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David Johnson
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- Contact:
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Paul Agaliotis
- Posts: 2589
- Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 18:49
- Location: San Martin, California
- Contact:
Joe A,
I'm in the process of replacing most of my rudder tailpost where the steering yoke goes.
It was interesting that FAA AC 43-13.2B says rosettes are not necessary if the inner tube is tight and less than 1" OD! I don't think I ever knew that before, I thought they were always required.
Amen to those tack welds!
Question; what is the dark gray/black coating on new 4130 tubing? It looks like pretty hardy stuff to me and looks as if it would be ok to use as is.
I'm in the process of replacing most of my rudder tailpost where the steering yoke goes.
It was interesting that FAA AC 43-13.2B says rosettes are not necessary if the inner tube is tight and less than 1" OD! I don't think I ever knew that before, I thought they were always required.
Amen to those tack welds!
Question; what is the dark gray/black coating on new 4130 tubing? It looks like pretty hardy stuff to me and looks as if it would be ok to use as is.
Gus Causbie
Ash Flat, AR
N83564, 7AC-2235, A65-8
Ash Flat, AR
N83564, 7AC-2235, A65-8
Gus,
No idea what the coating is on the tubing these days. I would take a torch to it and see how it looks after heating it up a bit. It should come off with a bit of heat.
Hmmm. Did not know about the lifting of the rosette welds on smaller tubing. Personally I would still put one or two on each one just to tie it into the structure and firm everything up.
After putting everything back together now is a good time to make sure that your drains in the back of the fuselage are good. Bet that your airplane had some debris clog everything up in the back leading to rust starting back there. Not sure I want to bring it up but have you checked your lower longerons yet?
Joe
No idea what the coating is on the tubing these days. I would take a torch to it and see how it looks after heating it up a bit. It should come off with a bit of heat.
Hmmm. Did not know about the lifting of the rosette welds on smaller tubing. Personally I would still put one or two on each one just to tie it into the structure and firm everything up.
After putting everything back together now is a good time to make sure that your drains in the back of the fuselage are good. Bet that your airplane had some debris clog everything up in the back leading to rust starting back there. Not sure I want to bring it up but have you checked your lower longerons yet?
Joe
Joe,
Should have mentioned that the rosette can be omitted only for solid sleeves, not the split type. At least that is the way it reads to me.
I went back and looked again and found that the note restricting the size to 1" or less was in my Mechanics Airframe Handbook which is pretty much a copy of 43.13, but I didn't find that restriction in 43.13?
It makes sense to me that the inner tube wouldn't need to be welded any more than it already is at the ends of the sleeve.
My Champ was completely rebuilt in '03 so I'm not too concerned about the lower longerons yet. I have to have faith that the rebuilder knew enough to check them out. The rear fuselage post area is very clean, too new to be very dirty yet. Good idea on the drains too, sometimes the holes are so ragged that they don't drain very well.
Should have mentioned that the rosette can be omitted only for solid sleeves, not the split type. At least that is the way it reads to me.
I went back and looked again and found that the note restricting the size to 1" or less was in my Mechanics Airframe Handbook which is pretty much a copy of 43.13, but I didn't find that restriction in 43.13?
It makes sense to me that the inner tube wouldn't need to be welded any more than it already is at the ends of the sleeve.
My Champ was completely rebuilt in '03 so I'm not too concerned about the lower longerons yet. I have to have faith that the rebuilder knew enough to check them out. The rear fuselage post area is very clean, too new to be very dirty yet. Good idea on the drains too, sometimes the holes are so ragged that they don't drain very well.
Gus Causbie
Ash Flat, AR
N83564, 7AC-2235, A65-8
Ash Flat, AR
N83564, 7AC-2235, A65-8