Max Crosswind

[Mac]

Hi all,

Can anyone tell me what the max crosswind component is for the Champ?

Thanks,

Scott

[joea]

Which tail, small or large? Wheel pants or not?

Who is flying it?

Lots of variables.

[Ron Babos]

Mac: About the same answer as joea. With a proficient pilot it will handle lots. What I use for a gauge is the rudder. When on final, at 55 or so, I want to be able to keep my track straight with the runway with a little extra rudder and aileron left. Crosswind effect will be less at the runway. I plant the upwind main and the tailwheel and keep it there until it runs out of speed and settles on the other wheel. Really satisfying when it all works. One wheel crosswind touch and goes are a hoot too.
Ron

[Paul Agaliotis]

Scott,
One of the other guys on the list figured a wind triangle on it and it was near 20K @ 90deg. , if I remember correctly. The problem was wing tip clearance.
Paul

[Mac]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the replies. The reason I was asking was yesterday I was out with an instructor who is one of the best tailwheel pilots around (he is in his mid 80s). We were landing in a direct cross wind 18kts, gusting to 24kts. He thought the max crosswind was 20kts so we didn't do too many. We ran out of left rudder on some of the heavier gusts. On take off I had about 2 feet of wing clearance on the upwind wing. I was amazed at how well the aircraft performed in the high winds.

I was just wondering if anyone had any published numbers.

Scott

[Paul Agaliotis]

Scott,
It sounds like you have a very good instructor. Learn all you can from him. Good tailwheel instructors are about as scarce as fuselage aux. tanks for the Champs.
Paul

[MikeB]

From my perspective it depends whether I'm on hard surface or grass. I'd probably be 'comfortable with 10-12 knots direct cross wind on hardsurface. On grass I can contend with more cross wind, but once it gets up to around 15 knots (and gusting) I start thinking about it. Of course, I spent the first 25 years of my flying life in a Cherokee 140 which is a lot more forgiving (makes you forget what feet are for).

Mike Berg

[Dusty]

Published numbers are just what some test pilot could find or was willing to fly in.

For a 115HP with a bit tail, the problem isn't wingtip clearance, it's that you just run completely out of rudder and can't get straight, whatever the calculations say. 25KT direct is about the limit, and I wouldn't land on pavement with big tires in that. I've landed in quite a bit more wind in soft sand with big tires, when I can land fairly sideways and use the tailwheel to straighten me out.

[7GC]

If the wind is 25 kts, it might be time to think about landing into it. I know it depends on obstacles, what the airport mgr will allow, etc. But with 25kts on the nose, a 75 ft ground roll should be the max, allowing you to land on a taxiway or other area.

[Carl Prather]

I would draw a wind triangle, head to tail with the touchdown speed paired to the crosswind and then look at the crab angle. Since you won't land in a crab, putting wing down with the controls cross until a wing tip literally touches the ground would give the max cross wind component if the wing can, in fact, be dropped that far. Obviously, this would be awful advice to actually follow but does bring up that there are absolute limitations in a maximum crosswind component. I'm sure I'll get disagreement but a rectified (direct or 90 degree equivalent) crosswind of more than 10 knots should be respected even though it's doable. Like it's been mentioned before, sometimes its just better to land into the wind since the ground speed is so low. Even a quartering headwind of 25 knots will tend to max out the cross wind capability of many small airplanes. (That's equivalent to a 20 MPH, not knots, crosswind) And remember at some point your plane will traveling a speed slower the wind and the wind could have it's way with your plane on rollout. Always try to fly in a way that's comfortable for you, it's not worth turning your plane into splinters and possibly hurting yourself.

[Dusty]

GC - you're right. Most of my serious crosswind experience is on the beaches of western AK. A lot of that is just screwing around, seeing what I can and can't do. It's generally possible to find a place that's more suitable within walking distance of where you want to be, but it's sure fun to slowly push your personal envelope in those conditions. I've spent a week (and around 50 flight hours) out there each of the last couple years, and I always come back feeling pretty good about knowing where my limitations are.

It's worth mentioning that the wind off the ocean out there tends to be glass smooth. A 10-knot gusty crosswind here in FAI is WAY worse than twice that and smooth.

Carl - that might be true if the Champ had more rudder (or less vertical stabilizer?). It might even be true on small tires, but I doubt it. What happens is you run out of rudder while still having lots of aileron - and air under the down wingtip - left, and start to get sideways. The only way to get straight is to speed up, which isn't all that conducive to landing!

[Carl Prather]

Dusty, I hear you. I'm just saying even if there was enough rudder to
counter to dropped wing, at some point the wingtip would drag. So what you're saying is that in the Champ's case it's rudder-limted for cross controlling not wing tip clearance limited. Either way, if a landing stuation comes down to running controls to their stops or dragging a wing tip along the ground then it's pretty serious situation no matter the airplane. With that much wind it's probably better just to point the airplane into the wind and enjoy the short landing roll.

Only once, I landed an airplane in winds I couldn't taxi in afterwards and had to wait for someone to help me back to the tie down.