National Aeronca Association Bulletin Board

Cub here, with C-85. 3/4 auto gas, 1/4 LL, and I do not admit to a shot of MMO. No cylinder problems since I started mixing. Better exhaust seats, and you can run leadless. For a Cub at sea level, alcohol is a don't care except for insurance issues.

Our hangars are our personal property, with $115/mo for the spot. Bargain, in the big city. Best of all for us old guys and horrible for the younger folk and the taxpayer is the city lets you auction off the 30-day leasehold to the highest bidder. That way for a newbie, a used hangar costs twice what a brand new one would, and the sale of the lease goes to an older wealthy guy instead of the airport. Not complaining; I have two.

The price of fuel is getting to be an issue again as 100LL is around $5.75 in the 'big city' north of me. If I fly about 25 miles further west, I can buy it off the self service pump for about $5.25. A farmer with an airstrip and a 100LL gas pump will sell it to me for about $5.10 which is his delivered price. Either way it's over $5.00 a gallon. As I'm still putting initial break in hours on my 0200 I need to keep using 100LL for awhile anyway. Local unleaded premium auto fuel (ethanol free) sells for about $3.75 a gallon although I haven't bought any since I parked the A65 Champ in my shop with the wings off. With the price of fuel I may park the L16 for the winter too and hope the price drops next spring (fat chance). Besides we intend to spend part of the winter in Texas.

As others have mentioned regarding hangars: we (flying club) own the local grass strip airport which amounts to around 10 acres. The hangar building space is leased to the hangar owners at .12 cents per square foot (each year) so a 40 x40 hangar (1600 square feet) would cost the owner $192 per year. Plus they are responsible for their own personal property taxes. We have around 12 hangars of various sizes and configurations so this basically pays the real estate taxes on the airport and most normal maintenance and some upgrades once in a while. For other costs we need to do some creative financing. For example: a couple of years ago we needed to replace our mowing equipment and found a large industrial turf mower for $5000. One member offered to split the cost with the flying club and we paid him back over two years with no interest (love members like that ). The club is operated as a non stock corporation with a board of directors. I was president for over 20 years but finally wrote new by-laws with term limits and wrote myself out of a job We have a membership of about 30 most of whom are pretty active and usually meet on Saturday morning for coffee and flying lies.

I only bring this up for information for anyone who might be interested in some kind of alternative.

Mike Berg

MikeB wrote: I only bring this up for information for anyone who might be interested in some kind of alternative.

Mike Berg

Sounds like a good deal, I have the same deal here at 3oh0. We are a club, own 50 acre with two runways grass & hard 2000 ft. We have about 140 members, of which 25% are active and 90% are great craftsmen, in wood, metal, fiberglass and welding, everything you need to do a project.

Fuel at present is $4.61 we have two tanks under ground 10,000 & 6,000 gals, so I can buy at a good price and we use 1200 gal /month. Lease the ground where the hangar sits for $20.00 / month
pay taxes, electric, can sell hangar to another member.

All fees at this time = about $35/month if you own a hangar, we have about 100 hangars with 135 aircraft.

Anyone stop by on the way to the big Aeronca fly-in in June at Middletown

Some of us have had trouble with 100LL when used all the time. 80/97 had 1/4 the lead content, which is an excellent reason for using 3/4 auto. And auto fuel is a whole lot better than 80/87 was when the small Continentals first appeared.

1)Mike Kelly
2)South Carolina
3)Non Ethanol auto fuel is still available in SC. I use premium NE auto fuel in the Supercub. I buy premium NE auto fuel in bulk, 100 gallons + at a time
4)use MMO in auto fuel.
5)Non Ethanol auto fuel in Champ, Cessna 182. 100LL in L19 due to pressure carb. Premium auto fuel and 100LL in Exp Supercub.
6) no need to check, buy at airport

Personal opinion here without getting too political, but unless they get energy prices under control the economy will never recover. There is a breaking point for most ordinary folks. Being more or less retired I can cut back a bit but most working folks are stuck. I did try car pooling back when I was teaching but it didn't work out as my 'car pool partner' (nice guy that he was) wanted to go in early to prep which was OK with me but I had to stay late to line up the next days work projects and parts so we gave it up after a few months.

Unsure exactly what 100LL is as I'm away from my home for another month or so but I'm sure unleaded non-ethanol premium is approaching $4.00 per gallon.

Mike Berg

If there is anything in this country that need regulation it's the petroleum industry. Claims were that it was the exploration for the oil that pushed the price. I think, if science can tell me what Mars is made of, we probably know where all of the oil is here on Earth. These fine gents make multi-Billion dollar quarters, that's 3 months when I went to school. They have it, and we're hooked, welcome to the life of a junkie.
Paul

Paul,

The other thing that perturbs me is that we have enough oil in America to last for a good 200 years, so why are we refusing to drill for it or use it while paying our enemies (Saudi, Iran, Venesula and so on) crazy prices for oil when we are sitting on loads of it!

For instance we just allowed the Chinese to drill off of our coasts while our own companies are not allowed to do the same thing!! Same thing with the pipeline from Canada and now the Canadians are going to run the pipeline to Vancouver and sell the entire output to the Chinese. WHY???

Is it because picking a President is like picking the best mosquito out of the swarm?

Joe, with all your post this morning, you must have a little time on your hands------Go fly the sedan!

Dennis

1. Name - Gerald Garrison (2292S, L-16A)

2. Location State - Arkansas

3. Type of fuel (Auto/100LL/Mix) - 100LL but planning to switch mostly to MOGAS

4. MMO (if used and quanity and frequency) - not while using 100LL but will with MOGAS

5. Engine type / Time since TOH - C85/~65

6. Years using this procedure - 3+

7. Do you check for alcohol in the fuel? If so, how? - fuel over a measured amount of water in a graduated cylinder - look for increased volume of water

8. Have you had any stuck valves? If so what do you believe the cause was? - no, not yet, anyway

Comments: I have acquired a trailer mounted tank that will feed using air pressure. Need to have the tank cleaned and install a 2d stage to the filter before using. MOGAS w/o alcohol is pretty hard to get around here, especially anything other than premium grade.

Dennis wrote:Is it because picking a President is like picking the best mosquito out of the swarm?

Joe, with all your post this morning, you must have a little time on your hands------Go fly the sedan!

Dennis

Dennis,

If I was home would really love to do so but am out working. Gotta pay for the fuel for the Sedan somehow!

Joe

1. Name: Jim Boeckl

2. Location State: Ashland, OR

3. Type of fuel (Auto/100LL/Mix): Non-ethanol, unleaded 92-octane Mogas in Champ main tank, 100LL in 5-gal wing tank (because that tank may not get used for months at a time).

4. MMO (if used and quantity and frequency): No, I'm reluctant to put anything with "Mystery" in the name in my airplane

5. Engine type / Time since TOH: C-85 w/ O200 crank, 80 hrs

6. Years using this procedure: 2

7. Do you check for alcohol in the fuel? If so, how? No, the fuel is sold as "clear" of ethanol. I check for water in the gascolator, have never seen any.

8. Have you had any stuck valves? If so what do you believe the cause was? No valve problems (I have new Millenium cylinders)

Comments: Non-ethanol, unleaded premium Mogas is available at fuel distributors throughout Oregon, but it's a pain to go get, store (not allowed in the hangar) and pour it into the airplane. Of course, it's about $1.50/gal cheaper than 100LL so the savings is like taking an aspirin for that pain.

I know of only one public airport in OR that sells it - Lebanon State. I have prepared a proposal to the Ashland Muni Airport (S03) to offer it. I'm looking for support from local pilots to stand behind the proposal to sell Mogas, preferably out of the old 80/87 Avgas pump/tank that has been sitting empty for years.

Seems like a good idea on paper - the FBO sells more fuel (that many of us have been buying elsewhere), at a lower cost than 100LL with a safer, much more convenient delivery manner, and environmentalists should be happy to learn many pilots are using unleaded fuel.

Please let me know if you would ever be inclined to buy Mogas if it was available at the Ashland Airport in Oregon, or if you have some insight on the subject.

Thanks,
Jim

I paid just over $90 for 15 gallons of 100LL yesterday. Kind of takes the fun out of it but I need to use 100LL on my new cylinders for a few more hours anyway. After that I will probably mix with 91 premium auto fuel for awhile anyway. The local Cenex station carries auto premium (ethanol free) for about $4.00 a gallon. I've checked it several times and it's always clear of ethanol.

MikeB

In 2006, JUST before the subprime meltdown started, Lee Raymond the President of Exxon (read monopoly)retired and received a 351 MILLION DOLLAR retirement. He was a long time employee so over the years, his total pay was astronomical! One must consider that we (the TAXPAYERS) provide this company with BIG tax breaks worth millions and millions. Another BIG winner was a fellow who had NO experience running an oil company but was made President of Halliburton because he had BIG government CONTACTS. Shortly after he was "hired", Halliburtons government business went up a good bit and when he became vice president it soared upward 240% thanks to the Iraq war and no bid contracts. While he was vice pres. he continued to be paid in "defered payments" which is very unusual. His initial severance pay from Halibuton, when he left to be Vice Pres. was over 35 Million plus. ( Currently, Exxon AND Haliburton are big players in Iraq oil which has 2-3 largest reserves in the world.) Haliburton recently moved their main headquarters to Dubi to avoid paying U.S. Taxes. P.S. When the alaska pipeline is completed, the oil will go to the gulf coast and be refined. Then it will ALL go to overseas markets according to the Economist magazine. Currently there is a GLUT of oil in the world market. Iraq's production more than makes up for any production lost from Iran. JP

J.C
I've read Cheney's book and your statements are wrong. He also quietly gifted millions of dollars to a medical center and several colleges.
As my IRA values are dropping due the current administrations lack of business sense, obamacare, huge increasing debt, and their class warfare on people who own a/c; I long for the old days when our national debt was much lower and the price of fuel was cheaper.

I attended a FAST meeting on aviation fuel in the U.S. and came away worried about the future of aviation. 100LL production is .015 of total fuel production in the U.S. In the Pacific Northwest where I live, mogas for a/c is quickly disappearing due to state and federal laws requiring alcohol to be added to the fuel. Three more refrineries in our area have recently switched to adding alcohol in the mogas in last three months. My local outlet has just dropped their alcohol free fuel. So now I'm stuck paying $5.40 for 100LL until I can find another outlet.

Richard