Me and a couple buddies will be travelling out to Western Alaska for a week of flying and fishing starting June 23rd. We will be travelling via our own airplanes (wheels only) and could be ranging from Iliamna to Bethel.
Anybody have any good recommendations on areas to go. We fish for anything; Rainbows, Kings, Reds, Dollies, Grayling, if it swims we will try and catch it.
Ive been out in the area dozens of times working, but never paid much attention to fishing/landing areas.
Thanks !
Bob K.
Anchorage, AK
Western Alaska Fishing Trip
I've spent a fair bit of time around King Salmon. It's a WONDERFUL place to fly. 8.50s would be OK if you're careful - there is some soft sand and rocks. 31s open up a lot of country, and make discovering the occasional invisible rock a non-event. I've been out there on BWs and the 26" Goodyears. I also saw an upside-down Citabria wearing Goodyears out there once.....
Landing on the steep beaches, particularly in a 30MPH crosswind, is a new experience - work your way into it. It's not a big deal, but it probably won't feel like anything you've done before (unless you've landed on steep beaches in a crosswind!). Especially if you're hauling a lot of gas (I usually have 4 jugs in the back) or a passenger, expect to occasionally not be able to turn much with your tailwheel buried in the sand.
KS is awful good at accommodating SVFRs if you're based there - you'll likely need that service. Keep talking on your radio - you won't be the only one scud-running the beaches.
I've never had much time to get serious about fishing, and never been out early enough for kings, but I've caught sockeye, silver, pinks, rainbows and dollies in any number of streams on "lunchbreak."
Have a ton of fun, and take lots of pictures - I never take enough. Hopefully these will be instructive.
These are the typical rocks- it's generally easy to avoid anything much bigger than this. 99% of them would be fine with 8.50s. The ones you don't see pay for the 31s!
Semi-soft beach. Tailwheel is taller than it looks....
A shot with the little tires.
These tracks were made with Goodyears. This is not particularly soft as far as the sandy beaches go. That's the entire rollout - I had a bit of a crosswind, and the tailwheel makes a good anchor if there are no big rocks to rip it off.
Landing on the steep beaches, particularly in a 30MPH crosswind, is a new experience - work your way into it. It's not a big deal, but it probably won't feel like anything you've done before (unless you've landed on steep beaches in a crosswind!). Especially if you're hauling a lot of gas (I usually have 4 jugs in the back) or a passenger, expect to occasionally not be able to turn much with your tailwheel buried in the sand.
KS is awful good at accommodating SVFRs if you're based there - you'll likely need that service. Keep talking on your radio - you won't be the only one scud-running the beaches.
I've never had much time to get serious about fishing, and never been out early enough for kings, but I've caught sockeye, silver, pinks, rainbows and dollies in any number of streams on "lunchbreak."
Have a ton of fun, and take lots of pictures - I never take enough. Hopefully these will be instructive.
These are the typical rocks- it's generally easy to avoid anything much bigger than this. 99% of them would be fine with 8.50s. The ones you don't see pay for the 31s!
Semi-soft beach. Tailwheel is taller than it looks....
A shot with the little tires.
These tracks were made with Goodyears. This is not particularly soft as far as the sandy beaches go. That's the entire rollout - I had a bit of a crosswind, and the tailwheel makes a good anchor if there are no big rocks to rip it off.
Thanks Dusty !!!
Beaches like that look real doo-able. My partner is in a Cub on 31"s, so the plan is for him to land first at all these spots, and move any large obstacles if needed before I come in. Shouldn't be an issue though. With the great visibility out of the Champ, I can dodge most things on the ground.
Were there any drainages that you liked more than others out there ? Both for friendly landing, and good fishing ? Since we will be without a boat, I'm thinking the bigger rivers might be a waste of time. (Kvichak, Nush)
Ive been practicing out in the Knik Valley and on the Big Su for landings, and haven't flipped it over yet... Monday I did try some dry, soft sand on the Su, and could definitely feel the increased drag, especially trying to take back off again. (Read "my birthday is coming, and 29" Streaks would be great !")
Thanks again !
Bob
Beaches like that look real doo-able. My partner is in a Cub on 31"s, so the plan is for him to land first at all these spots, and move any large obstacles if needed before I come in. Shouldn't be an issue though. With the great visibility out of the Champ, I can dodge most things on the ground.
Were there any drainages that you liked more than others out there ? Both for friendly landing, and good fishing ? Since we will be without a boat, I'm thinking the bigger rivers might be a waste of time. (Kvichak, Nush)
Ive been practicing out in the Knik Valley and on the Big Su for landings, and haven't flipped it over yet... Monday I did try some dry, soft sand on the Su, and could definitely feel the increased drag, especially trying to take back off again. (Read "my birthday is coming, and 29" Streaks would be great !")
Thanks again !
Bob
Knowing exactly what the surface is like before you get there will be a HUGE advantage. You're always a mile or two from a beach that is very obviously good (but what's the fun in walking when you can fly?).
I learned most of what very little I know about off-airport landing out there. Being able to drag 100 places a day, land on half of them, and walk to a few of the ones you didn't like is absolutely priceless, and you just can't do that most places. I've landed several hundred times between Pilot Point and Goodnews, and damned few of those were anything like nasty. Don't let your buddy in the Cub have all the fun!
You're not going to get to reuse your airplane if you land anywhere near the Kvichak. Do fly around until you see the beluga - there will be several hundred out there somewhere.
Nunavukchuk Bay is one of my favorite spots on the planet. It's the home of my first ever beach landing. Huge firm beaches with airplane tracks on them, generally out of the worst of the wind, and sockeye in the stream.
Hagemeister Island is a great place to play. Never caught a fish there - or tried. I don't think you need FWS permission to land there, but you do for the other little islands around there. They're generally cruddy landing anyway...
Osviak River reportedly has cutthroat, but I couldn't find them on one short attempt.
I've fished the Goodnews, but not by airplane. It's worth trying (land at the GNB airport if all else fails).
Not sure if I'd try the 29s or just stick with the 31s, given the choice (or maybe 35s?!?). I consider them an insurance policy. They've absolutely saved me on one occasion, and made scary things happy many other times. Where else ya gonna do that for under $5K in aviation??
I learned most of what very little I know about off-airport landing out there. Being able to drag 100 places a day, land on half of them, and walk to a few of the ones you didn't like is absolutely priceless, and you just can't do that most places. I've landed several hundred times between Pilot Point and Goodnews, and damned few of those were anything like nasty. Don't let your buddy in the Cub have all the fun!
You're not going to get to reuse your airplane if you land anywhere near the Kvichak. Do fly around until you see the beluga - there will be several hundred out there somewhere.
Nunavukchuk Bay is one of my favorite spots on the planet. It's the home of my first ever beach landing. Huge firm beaches with airplane tracks on them, generally out of the worst of the wind, and sockeye in the stream.
Hagemeister Island is a great place to play. Never caught a fish there - or tried. I don't think you need FWS permission to land there, but you do for the other little islands around there. They're generally cruddy landing anyway...
Osviak River reportedly has cutthroat, but I couldn't find them on one short attempt.
I've fished the Goodnews, but not by airplane. It's worth trying (land at the GNB airport if all else fails).
Not sure if I'd try the 29s or just stick with the 31s, given the choice (or maybe 35s?!?). I consider them an insurance policy. They've absolutely saved me on one occasion, and made scary things happy many other times. Where else ya gonna do that for under $5K in aviation??
Now we're talking !!!
Ive been surprised at how well the tires/suspension sucks up rough landing spots. By no means do I feel Im taking it to the point of abusing it, but it handles things very well. My concern will be more of "once I land, will I be able to take back off again". Beaches are usually easy in that regard, as there are no obstacles to clear once airborne.
What did you mean when you said I wouldnt be able to reuse my plane if I land anywhere near the Kvichak ?
I think Id be happy with 29s on the Champ. Im already happy with the Goodyears, but I do worry from time to time about shearing a valve stem. Its also nice not having to worry too much about pavement landings/taxiing with the GY's, rather than the softer BW's. Maybe someday...
Thanks again !!!
Bob
Ive been surprised at how well the tires/suspension sucks up rough landing spots. By no means do I feel Im taking it to the point of abusing it, but it handles things very well. My concern will be more of "once I land, will I be able to take back off again". Beaches are usually easy in that regard, as there are no obstacles to clear once airborne.
What did you mean when you said I wouldnt be able to reuse my plane if I land anywhere near the Kvichak ?
I think Id be happy with 29s on the Champ. Im already happy with the Goodyears, but I do worry from time to time about shearing a valve stem. Its also nice not having to worry too much about pavement landings/taxiing with the GY's, rather than the softer BW's. Maybe someday...
Thanks again !!!
Bob
You've always got downhill, it's usually not ALL soft, and the wind's generally chuckin' - you'll fly out. The only thing I'd worry about it nosing over, and not too much about that on Goodyears.
Most everything between the Naknek and Kvichak is mud. Bottomless mud, or so I hear. I make it a point of never landing anywhere I can't get at least most of the plane above high tide and tied off (and carry enough rope to do just that) if something happens, and that doesn't look promising there either.
I HATE King Salmon for the tire wear. It's a friggin asphalt sea, and they will NOT let you land in the grass. They are pretty good about letting you land fairly close to where you need to go. Bet you could thin those Goodyears out by landing at the threshold - that'll give you an 11,900' taxi to your parking spot if you've got a bit of headwind!
Here's a picture of some softer sand. I don't know if I'd have landed there on the little tires, although it's very doable if all goes as planned.
Bigger image: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3091/257 ... eed8_o.jpg
Most everything between the Naknek and Kvichak is mud. Bottomless mud, or so I hear. I make it a point of never landing anywhere I can't get at least most of the plane above high tide and tied off (and carry enough rope to do just that) if something happens, and that doesn't look promising there either.
I HATE King Salmon for the tire wear. It's a friggin asphalt sea, and they will NOT let you land in the grass. They are pretty good about letting you land fairly close to where you need to go. Bet you could thin those Goodyears out by landing at the threshold - that'll give you an 11,900' taxi to your parking spot if you've got a bit of headwind!
Here's a picture of some softer sand. I don't know if I'd have landed there on the little tires, although it's very doable if all goes as planned.
Bigger image: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3091/257 ... eed8_o.jpg
Sounds great so far ! Ive yet to land anywhere that made the tail want to come over on its own. Once or twice some heavy braking had it get light, but no close calls.
I checked out those places you mentioned, and they look like they might fit the bill perfectly ! Thanks again for the heads up. I think you made my buddy cringe with the 12k foot taxi in King Salmon... He absolutely hates landing on pavement with his BW's, not that I blame him one bit.
One more question, since I'm on a roll here..... I have a fixed front seat, and a folding rear seat. For this trip I'm going to remove the rear seat so I can fit a cooler back there. Do the front and rear seats in a Champ use the same mounting brackets ? Id like to swap out the folding seat into the front so I can load the cooler easier. If it weren't for work, Id be down there now checking it out...
Thanks again ! I'll be sure to take tons of pictures and post a full report when I get back.
Hasta ~
Bob K.
Anchorage, AK
I checked out those places you mentioned, and they look like they might fit the bill perfectly ! Thanks again for the heads up. I think you made my buddy cringe with the 12k foot taxi in King Salmon... He absolutely hates landing on pavement with his BW's, not that I blame him one bit.
One more question, since I'm on a roll here..... I have a fixed front seat, and a folding rear seat. For this trip I'm going to remove the rear seat so I can fit a cooler back there. Do the front and rear seats in a Champ use the same mounting brackets ? Id like to swap out the folding seat into the front so I can load the cooler easier. If it weren't for work, Id be down there now checking it out...
Thanks again ! I'll be sure to take tons of pictures and post a full report when I get back.
Hasta ~
Bob K.
Anchorage, AK
Sorry to hijack this thread but I would like to hear about the red and white Champ in the pics. engine, empty wt. electrical etc. I'm restoring my father's Champ and plan on a few mods. that will make it more useful. I like the blue and silver Champ too. Both airplanes look like you guy's can have fun without Super Cub prices.
N3840E
Kevin Nugent
Kevin Nugent
You hit the nail on the head ! "Having fun without SuperCub prices" is what its all about. I figure I can go about 80-90% of the spots that a SuperCub can, for about a third the cost. The Champ will never be a bigtime hauler like a Cub, but as long as you keep it relatively light, it will surprise you with what it can do.
Im running a Lycoming 0-235c (108/115hp) and a 76x42 prop. Climbs great, but only cruises at about 85mph. The panel is pretty sparse, with just an electric turn and bank in case the clouds swallow me up. I do have a full electric system, with lightweight battery under the rear seat. The empty weight after it was all rebuilt in 1991 shows 1012lbs. (Gross is 1458) Standard oleo gear with 26" Goodyears and single puck hydraulic brakes.
I dont think I could be happier with this plane. There is always something else bigger, faster, stronger, but the Super Champ is a great balance. I burn about 6 gallons an hour without leaning, and am hoping to get closer to 5gph on this W. Alaska trip. (Gas prices will probably be well over $8/gal)
If I had a blank check to make changes, Id add 29" Airstreaks, the cub-style hydra-sorb gear, and maybe a Baby Bushwheel for the rear.
Good luck !
Bob K.
Anchorage, AK
Im running a Lycoming 0-235c (108/115hp) and a 76x42 prop. Climbs great, but only cruises at about 85mph. The panel is pretty sparse, with just an electric turn and bank in case the clouds swallow me up. I do have a full electric system, with lightweight battery under the rear seat. The empty weight after it was all rebuilt in 1991 shows 1012lbs. (Gross is 1458) Standard oleo gear with 26" Goodyears and single puck hydraulic brakes.
I dont think I could be happier with this plane. There is always something else bigger, faster, stronger, but the Super Champ is a great balance. I burn about 6 gallons an hour without leaning, and am hoping to get closer to 5gph on this W. Alaska trip. (Gas prices will probably be well over $8/gal)
If I had a blank check to make changes, Id add 29" Airstreaks, the cub-style hydra-sorb gear, and maybe a Baby Bushwheel for the rear.
Good luck !
Bob K.
Anchorage, AK
I just got a pair of 26 in Airstreaks from Bushwheel to replace my Goodyear 26s. Hope to have them put on in the next few days. The Goodyears have worked fine, but I feel I need more flexible tires for some of the landing spots. I thought about going to 29 in, but decided 26 would be adequate and I should gain about 12 lbs useful load. Next year will be the baby Bushwheel on the tail. A few weeks ago, I was on a bear hunt on Beluga River, did a lot of heavy takeoffs on soft sand - the Scott 3200 just digs in too much. One mod after another!
BTW, my empty weight is about 1135, gross wt 1650, with O-290 135 horse and 78/41 prop. Also have the Cub-style gear, which is the best mod for off-airport.
BTW, my empty weight is about 1135, gross wt 1650, with O-290 135 horse and 78/41 prop. Also have the Cub-style gear, which is the best mod for off-airport.
Bob K, Thanks for your reply. My ship is orginal '47 7AC. I have a C-90-14. I don't plan on a charging system but will have the capability to run a GPS and comm. off of an Odyssey 680. I had this same engine in an EAA Biplane with a starter and never ran out of juice even after about 30 starts and running the GPS. The Continental powered a/c without a starter should be about 90 pounds lighter on empty wt. I'm headed to the Aeronca Fly In fri. to get some motivation and meet some the guy's from this board. As far as load hauling capability, I will never need to haul 400 pounds of moose meat out of the bush. I think the Aeronca's are fine airplanes with the right mods. as long as they are flown in their design limits. I have a Cub and it's in pieces too. The Champ comes first.
N3840E
Kevin Nugent
Kevin Nugent
The red champ has an 0-235 turning a 74/40 prop. Full electric (lightweight everything), extended baggage + fishing pole tube, cables under the floor, 31" Bushwheels, Clevelands, 26 gal fuel, and probably some other stuff. Weighs a little over 1000 on the Bushwheels - any clever ideas to shed 50 pounds?
For what I do, the tires are maybe the biggest improvement. You can add them anytime if you have juice brakes. I've always had the big baggage, and can't really imagine life without it. That's one thing I think every champ should get when the fabric is off.
Spring gear may be my next addition. Anyone been down that road?
For what I do, the tires are maybe the biggest improvement. You can add them anytime if you have juice brakes. I've always had the big baggage, and can't really imagine life without it. That's one thing I think every champ should get when the fabric is off.
Spring gear may be my next addition. Anyone been down that road?
Guys, you want motivation...??? There is a beautiful Sedan here with the big tundra tires, extended baggage and all set up to head to Alaska. Absolutely a beautiful airplane and very much a bush airplane.N3840E wrote:I'm headed to the Aeronca Fly In fri. to get some motivation and meet some the guy's from this board. As far as load hauling capability, I will never need to haul 400 pounds of moose meat out of the bush. I think the Aeronca's are fine airplanes with the right mods. as long as they are flown in their design limits. I have a Cub and it's in pieces too. The Champ comes first.
Kevin,
When you get here look for the guy in the straw hat and wearing a orange "high-vis" vest.
Joe
Dusty, you would want the spring gear over the "cub style" hydrosorb type gear that's available in AK? Those Citabria gear legs are a heavy slab of steel on each side. Now if you could use the new type aluminum gear that is comes on the new American Champions that would be much lighter. Hate to ask, could you post a couple of shots of your big baggage?
Joe, will look for you. Should be around 2 pm when I show up. Thanks. Kevin
Joe, will look for you. Should be around 2 pm when I show up. Thanks. Kevin
N3840E
Kevin Nugent
Kevin Nugent