First t/o and Landing in the Chief

[Dan1940Chief]

Winds were semi-calm so went for some dual today -- finally!

Janet was able to come with me today to finally see the new baby -- I also used her help in holding the tail as I prop-started (plus chocks for both main wheels).

On the second throw the engine sputtered and gave me plenty of time to walk around the strut and get into the cabin and hold the brakes as it idled. Hand-propping is fairly easy as long as the engine is primed.

Winds were 110 @ 6 or so -- not too bad for rwy 8. My first tailwheel takeoff wasn't quite as bad as I expected, but I still hadn't figured out where to place my feet on these %$##$ heel brake/rudder pedal combos.

We climbed to somewhere near pattern altitude and then did a pass over the grass parallel runway looking for obvious ruts, etc. It looked good, so next time around would be my first tailwheel landing.

The pattern is MUCH tighter and smaller and lower than what I'm used to (Haven't flown an airplane less than 200 HP in over a year -- memories of the Skipper have receded, thankfully!). I turned base to final in a nice gentle slipping arc, but felt like we were approaching very flat.

The first touchdown was a bit tail low but not too bad, and actually straight. I kept the wing low and straight with rudder by instinct, not any conscious thought, but I'm glad at least something carried over from tricycle airplanes!

The second takeoff was better, and the third was straight down the runway. I figured I could keep my heels on the floor and still not be placing any pressure on the heel brakes, and it was much easier to maintain fine control over the rudder.

Landings were still straight, despite the wind shifting further right and steadying a bit at 8 or so. I was keeping the pitch angle a little too high and realized that I'm just used to tricycle gear airplanes where the touchdown angle is a nose-high, whereas stall/touchdown attitude in this airplane is the regular rolling-around ground attitude (duh).

Will demonstrated and approach and landing to give me the overall sight picture and that helped.

It shouldn't take too long before I'm flying my own airplane! What a great feeling!

[MikeB]

Good for you, Dan! I still (at times) tell myself "Nose straight, nose straight" when landing on hard surface. The heel brakes are fine once you get used to them. I had about 750 hours in a Cherokee (yawn, what feet?) before I started flying in a tail dragger which lets you know right away you need feet.

MikeB

[Dan1940Chief]

Good for you, Dan! I still (at times) tell myself "Nose straight, nose straight" when landing on hard surface. The heel brakes are fine once you get used to them. I had about 750 hours in a Cherokee (yawn, what feet?) before I started flying in a tail dragger which lets you know right away you need feet.

MikeB

Thanks!

I think transition from a Cherokee to a Tailwheel would be tough, as the Cherokee can pretty much be flown with feet on the floor! Even a 150/172/182 needs more rudder....

I was glad some things translated over from my trike-gear experience, but at one point I said, "I feel like I'm learning to fly all over again!"

And in some ways, I am!

[joea]

Dan,

I find that when transitioning new taildragger pilots that it helps to have them wear shoes that have thin soles on them. Something that they can feel the rudder pedals in so that they have some feedback. Worse are boots or tennis shoes that have padded soles.

Keep your feet on the ball of your foot right on the pedal for takeoff and landing and any hint of the tail moving around push as needed to keep the airplane straight.

On grass its a breeze but on hard surface keeping the tire pressures 12-14 is a big help.

Joe A

[Dan1940Chief]

Dan,

I find that when transitioning new taildragger pilots that it helps to have them wear shoes that have thin soles on them. Something that they can feel the rudder pedals in so that they have some feedback. Worse are boots or tennis shoes that have padded soles.

Keep your feet on the ball of your foot right on the pedal for takeoff and landing and any hint of the tail moving around push as needed to keep the airplane straight.

On grass its a breeze but on hard surface keeping the tire pressures 12-14 is a big help.

Joe A

Excellent tips -- I reduced TP to 16 lbs today before we flew, wore running shoes (I tried thin-soled shoes yesterday while taxiing and found them too thin -- too much work for my foot and not enough for the sole of the shoe). I could feel the pedals and react much better with these shoes.

[joea]

Dan,

Good and you are on the right track. Not only is there not much room in the area for big shoes (if you are a big guy like me) but being able to have feedback from the rudder pedals is a big plus.

Now take the tire pressure down another 2 psi and see how you like it. If you are on grass its not as much of an issue but hard surface feels much better.

Joe

[Dan1940Chief]

Dan,

Good and you are on the right track. Not only is there not much room in the area for big shoes (if you are a big guy like me) but being able to have feedback from the rudder pedals is a big plus.

Now take the tire pressure down another 2 psi and see how you like it. If you are on grass its not as much of an issue but hard surface feels much better.

Joe

I'm using a cheapo stick gauge (the nicer one wouldn't fit) so I don't really trust it to be within 2 psi of accuracy!

But I'll let a bit more out -- there's not much squat to the tires even at 16 psi!

[Clive]

Dan,
Keep your feet on the ball of your foot right on the pedal for takeoff and landing and any hint of the tail moving around push as needed to keep the airplane straight.

On grass its a breeze but on hard surface keeping the tire pressures 12-14 is a big help.

Joe A

On the approach, I generally move my feet up like that and give the rudder a wiggle, just to get the feel and be ready.

What speeds are you using? None are published and all the information seems to be passed on verbally. You can come in very slow but the sink rate gets pretty high once you're below about 60mph.

I don't know if it's normal but I can never trim my '38 65C much below about 70 mph, so a certain amount of back pressure needs to be held right through the approach.

I use 700x6 tires which better suit our rough grass strip, and I keep them around 14-15psi.

[Dan1940Chief]

On the approach, I generally move my feet up like that and give the rudder a wiggle, just to get the feel and be ready.

What speeds are you using? None are published and all the information seems to be passed on verbally. You can come in very slow but the sink rate gets pretty high once you're below about 60mph.

I don't know if it's normal but I can never trim my '38 65C much below about 70 mph, so a certain amount of back pressure needs to be held right through the approach.

I use 700x6 tires which better suit our rough grass strip, and I keep them around 14-15psi.

I was using 60 MPH as that seemed to be the best hybrid between slow approach speed and fast control speed. As you say, below 60 and the airplane drops like a rock. Above and there's too much energy and the airplane will float halfway down the runway.

The tires are 6.00x6 and seem ok. I'll have to replace next year I'm sure as I will be forced to fly on pavement until I find hangar space at an airport with grass.

[Roger Anderson]

Yep...darn brake pedals. In my Chief, I have the pedals adjusted as far down as possible and still have any holding power before bottoming out. Also, on takeoffs and landings, I place my feet up off the floor to keep my heels up and away from accidently getting on the brakes during moments of anxious rudder pedal action. Chief brakes are just too easily in the way and Champ brakes are just too hard to reach.....oh well....wouldn't be fun if it was too easy.

I'm with Joe on tire pressure. Amazing what just a few pounds difference can make. My favorite range is 11 to 14 lbs. I actually inflate to 15 and over a few weeks they leak down to about 11 when I inflate again. 60 has always seemed to be a good glide speed for these type aircraft.

Actually, try gliding with the bottom of the wings flat with the horizon and see if that gives you about 55 to 60 on final. If so, maintain that pitch attitude until beginning to flare.

[Dan1940Chief]

Actually, try gliding with the bottom of the wings flat with the horizon and see if that gives you about 55 to 60 on final. If so, maintain that pitch attitude until beginning to flare.

That's about right -- level, power at 1400 RPM (or so), carb heat gives a manageable sink rate.

[Roger Anderson]

Another consideration reference high sink rates. Actually, the "rate of decent" or fmp sink is not all that great on the Chief (try my previous Tri Pacer or Ercoupe "falling brick" sink rates). What we do have is a high "angle of decent" because of the slow forward speeds, especially slow with any kind of head wind . I think this might give an illusion of rapid sink. In the "olden days" the taught method of arrival, assuming no other traffic to follow in the pattern, was carb heat on, power to idle abeam the runway end, then a power off glide at 60 to a landing (clear the throttle once on base). I used that for all these years until fairly recently. I do now carry a bit of power throughout, deciding that it's just better for the engine.....and that seems to be the practice taught by all CFIs now. However, do practice that power off method. You will still have plenty of flare left at the bottom. Ooops.....another additional thought about taildragger landings....and you've probably heard it already. The number one important thing to insure in a 3 point landing is "keep the stick/wheel fully back in your lap" after arriving on the surface of the earth. To not have it fully back is the biggest cause of the plane getting away from you. On my Chief, the last few inches of yoke travel back, results in a big elevator up movement. "Stick in you lap".

[Dan1940Chief]

Another consideration reference high sink rates. Actually, the "rate of decent" or fmp sink is not all that great on the Chief (try my previous Tri Pacer or Ercoupe "falling brick" sink rates). What we do have is a high "angle of decent" because of the slow forward speeds, especially slow with any kind of head wind . I think this might give an illusion of rapid sink. In the "olden days" the taught method of arrival, assuming no other traffic to follow in the pattern, was carb heat on, power to idle abeam the runway end, then a power off glide at 60 to a landing (clear the throttle once on base). I used that for all these years until fairly recently. I do now carry a bit of power throughout, deciding that it's just better for the engine.....and that seems to be the practice taught by all CFIs now. However, do practice that power off method. You will still have plenty of flare left at the bottom.

Actually, that's what I did about 1/2 the landings. I kept power in the rest of the time to shallow the angle as it appeared steep. I did one power off 180 precision landing and got to within 50' of my planned touchdown point. I added a tiny bit of power at the end to get past the bumpy turf and over to the smooth (for some reason it's churned up pretty good near the windsock).

That's a very good point about the perception of steepness due to slow speeds -- I've noticed that on approaches in otehr airplanes when there's a decent headwind.

Of course I should confess that I'm a disciple of the Low Energy at Touchdown School of Aviating. I teach it, I practice it, and I try to convince everyone else that flies to try it.

When I fly a flapped airplane its full flaps everytime and 1.3 Vso everytime unless there is some compelling reason to do otherwise. Touchdown run is shorter, stress to the airframe is less, wear on the brakes and tires is reduced, and there's all-around less trouble.

Spend a day at the local airport and watch Bonanzas, C152s, and C172s land 1/2 way down the 5000 runway, screeching the brakes and hoping they stop before the end.

[Roger Anderson]

Spend a day at the local airport and watch Bonanzas, C152s, and C172s land 1/2 way down the 5000 runway, screeching the brakes and hoping they stop before the end.[/quote]

Boy...are you right about that. Unbelievable what you see. The nose gear is NOT part of the landing gear on a tricycle gear aircraft. It's a wheel for steering the aircraft while taxiing...at least that's what I was taught years ago...and still practice. A taildragger pilot will always be a much better tricycle gear pilot also...and much easier on the airplanes. Here's another excellent email based Aeronca discussion site if you're interested. You will see many of the folks on here over there also, plus many, many more. You can usually get an answer to a question in minutes over there. However....be warned.....it generates a huge number of messages every day and is chatty....which I like. It's owned by a Chief guy out in Calif. If you join, do dedicate an email address just to it and be ready to click"delete all" frequently if you don't see any topics you are interested in. A great group of folks. If you see #### before a topic header, then it's going to be off "Aeronca" topic. At the following.
http://mail.westmont.edu/mailman/listinfo/aeronca

[WWhunter]

Maybe a little off topic but installing some VG's will help also. They allow much better control at lower airspeeds on the Aeronca wing.
Keith