I just returned from Oshkosh and finally decided that what I really wanted was a vintage/classic airplane, as opposed to a kit or older spamcan.
Having said that, I'm going to look at a 1946 7AC this week. I'll have my instructor/A&P do a pre-purchase if I find I absolutley have to have it, but....
I don't know anything about these. Can someone point me in the right direction for:
1) a good description of these craft
2) things to look for or be aware of (even before a pre-purchase)
3) any typical mods done (electric?)
Am I nuts?
Thanks,
Dan
Spring Lake, MI
Looking to buy...
-
Nathan K. Hammond
- Posts: 2371
- Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 00:22
- Location: Danville, KY (DVK)
- Contact:
Welcome to the club Dan. When looking for an antique/classic airplane there are some good general guide lines to keep in mind. I’m sure I’ll leave out some good ones, but others will fill in. 
First thing is first, have a pre-buy on anything you consider, by a competent AP that understands old fabric covered aircraft. Even if the AP has 20 years experience working with Cessna’s, Late Piper’s, and Mooney’s, they don’t have the knowledge needed for stick, tube and fabric aircraft. Most likely the A/C your looking at will be old in age, and will have had an “incident” once in its life. This isn’t a bad thing, but make sure, the repair is done properly. In all likely you’ll never know anything ever happened too it unless you look in the logs.
Some things to look at include the main gear, struts, wings, and lower longerons (sp?) at the tail.
- The main gear runs on a set of oleo springs that ride in case. The springs will get soft after a while, you can tell by pulling down on a wing and letting go. If the airplane rocks back and for a couple times, the springs may need to be replaced. Also look for slop were the oleo rides in the case. There’s a bronze bushing that is sacrificial and tends to elongate, allowing the oleo to bounce back and forth in the case.
- Struts have a tendency to rust from the inside. Take a large, heavy washer or silver dollar, and tap the strut at the lower end. Listen closely for any little “tinking” that follows….this is usually rust bounce down the strut. A little may not be a grounding squawk at first, but something to keep an eye on. ***this goes for any plane with struts***
- Aeronca’s have a funny AD note on the wing spars. You can read the AD at www.aeroncapilots.com but the short of it, look for compression cracks on the spar, and closely at the top of the spar. A lot of AP’s just took a razor and cut holes in the top of the wings, which is acceptable by law, but let’s water in the wing….not a good thing for wood spars. A good AP can do the inspection without cutting holes. Be sure the AD has been complied with.
- Take your silver dollar and tap the lower tubing at the tail, listening for rust again. This is the lowest place on the airplane and where water will collect. If you hear rust, take a pick and try to push it through the tube. If you can go through, then tubing will have to be replaced.
- Take a good look at the fabric. Did it sit outside, or in an open hangar? Sunlight kills fabric, it degrades the strength until it fails. If the fabric is old, do a punch test and see where it fails. Be wary if the airplane was recently painted but not recovered. This could be a trick to pass the fabric…..the new paint will give a false, higher reading on the punch test.
As for mods, the sky’s the limit. A lot of people have changed the engine to upgrade to 85, 90 or 100 hp. Wing tanks are another big up grade. There are several types from 5.5 gal, to 10 gal, even 13 gal “Tokyo Tanks.” Seaplane doors are nice, as are floats. The mods you put on, all depend on your taste.
For a good description of the champ, check out this link… http://www.joea.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=482
Hope this helps
nkh
First thing is first, have a pre-buy on anything you consider, by a competent AP that understands old fabric covered aircraft. Even if the AP has 20 years experience working with Cessna’s, Late Piper’s, and Mooney’s, they don’t have the knowledge needed for stick, tube and fabric aircraft. Most likely the A/C your looking at will be old in age, and will have had an “incident” once in its life. This isn’t a bad thing, but make sure, the repair is done properly. In all likely you’ll never know anything ever happened too it unless you look in the logs.
Some things to look at include the main gear, struts, wings, and lower longerons (sp?) at the tail.
- The main gear runs on a set of oleo springs that ride in case. The springs will get soft after a while, you can tell by pulling down on a wing and letting go. If the airplane rocks back and for a couple times, the springs may need to be replaced. Also look for slop were the oleo rides in the case. There’s a bronze bushing that is sacrificial and tends to elongate, allowing the oleo to bounce back and forth in the case.
- Struts have a tendency to rust from the inside. Take a large, heavy washer or silver dollar, and tap the strut at the lower end. Listen closely for any little “tinking” that follows….this is usually rust bounce down the strut. A little may not be a grounding squawk at first, but something to keep an eye on. ***this goes for any plane with struts***
- Aeronca’s have a funny AD note on the wing spars. You can read the AD at www.aeroncapilots.com but the short of it, look for compression cracks on the spar, and closely at the top of the spar. A lot of AP’s just took a razor and cut holes in the top of the wings, which is acceptable by law, but let’s water in the wing….not a good thing for wood spars. A good AP can do the inspection without cutting holes. Be sure the AD has been complied with.
- Take your silver dollar and tap the lower tubing at the tail, listening for rust again. This is the lowest place on the airplane and where water will collect. If you hear rust, take a pick and try to push it through the tube. If you can go through, then tubing will have to be replaced.
- Take a good look at the fabric. Did it sit outside, or in an open hangar? Sunlight kills fabric, it degrades the strength until it fails. If the fabric is old, do a punch test and see where it fails. Be wary if the airplane was recently painted but not recovered. This could be a trick to pass the fabric…..the new paint will give a false, higher reading on the punch test.
As for mods, the sky’s the limit. A lot of people have changed the engine to upgrade to 85, 90 or 100 hp. Wing tanks are another big up grade. There are several types from 5.5 gal, to 10 gal, even 13 gal “Tokyo Tanks.” Seaplane doors are nice, as are floats. The mods you put on, all depend on your taste.
For a good description of the champ, check out this link… http://www.joea.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=482
Hope this helps
nkh
7AC-5691
Super 85-12F @ DVK
Super 85-12F @ DVK
Nathan listed many good points that should be looked at. Let me chime in with a couple more: watch to be sure the aircraft has not been painted with auto paint. Usually that stuff will "ring worm" and crack after a short period of time. The log book "should" indicate what the plane was painted with and also there should be a 337 form listing the type of fabric and process used including paint. One other thing is to have someone carefully research any modifications that were accomplished over the years....i.e. engine changes, fuel tanks, etc. They should be properly documented with 337 forms and log endorsements. Be sure the aircraft has a data plate. Generally, around the rear seat someplace.
Also, as Nathan says: if you're not familiar with the aircraft, get someone who knows tube/fabric planes with wood spars and that's generally not someone who just got out of A & P school.
Good luck.....hope you like your Champ or Chief.
Mike Berg
Also, as Nathan says: if you're not familiar with the aircraft, get someone who knows tube/fabric planes with wood spars and that's generally not someone who just got out of A & P school.
Good luck.....hope you like your Champ or Chief.
Mike Berg
"If God had intended man to fly He would have given us more money"
-
Nathan K. Hammond
- Posts: 2371
- Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 00:22
- Location: Danville, KY (DVK)
- Contact:
When you find a good candidate to buy, call the FAA or go to thier website and buy a CD on the aircraft. For 5 dollars, you get every....EVERY....piece of paperwork that has ever been through the FAA's hands on that particular aircraft. It's a super smart idea, and kinda of neat, because you get the entire and whole background of the plane.
nkh
things will keep popping into mind as the night goes on...
nkh
things will keep popping into mind as the night goes on...
7AC-5691
Super 85-12F @ DVK
Super 85-12F @ DVK