I recently obtained a field approval and installed a JPI 830 engine analyzer on my Champ C85-12 that was upgraded with the O200 mod. I am not posting this info to receive feedback on all the dumb reasons why anyone would want to install such a device on a simple little Continental engine, but rather to share some of the info that I have obtained in the short time that I’ve used the device.
There were several reasons why I decided to install the unit. First, it integrates JPI’s fuel monitoring hardware which provides a very accurate indication of the amount of fuel onboard and is integrated with the GPS to provide additional fuel duration information.
Second, the unit was equipped with a thermocouple to monitor the carb temp to monitor carb icing. In the short time that I’ve used the device, I have experienced several actual cases of carb icing that was detected through the monitoring of both carb temp and rpm.
Third, the unit has a very accurate digital tach which has verified that the old mechanical tach has a significant amount of hysteresis, and thus sometimes present accurate rpm while other times is has significant error.
Fourth, the unit has software that aids in the leaning of the mixture. Fifth, the unit has a thermocouple mounted in the front left oil galley to accurately monitor the oil temp as it exits the main crank and cam bearings. This temp deviates significantly from the oil temp on the outlet of the oil pump as displayed on the panel gauge.
Finally, with the significant costs today for a major overhaul of even a small Continental, I was interested in having as much information as reasonably available for early detection of potential engine problems. One of the features of the 830 analyzer is that the data can be easily downloaded to a computer thumb drive. The data can then be reviewed and analyzed using JPI software. Recently a third party company started a web site where data can be uploaded and viewed by others.
I have uploaded a number of my short flights to this site, and you can review my data at this site:
https://my.savvyanalysis.com/my-flights ... 9a86a6535b
A few comments about the site. If you click on a flight, a screen will pop up with two graphs. If you click on the magnifying glass on the right legend and then click on the top option, the two graphs will be scaled to fit your screen.
Then on the upper left and right end of each graph, there is a box where you can select any variable to display on the chart. “CDT” is not compressor discharge temp but rather carb temp. Oil pressure should have a multiplying factor of 10. Savvy is aware of this but has not updated their site yet. “HP” is actually percent horsepower, but with the O200 upgrade, I believe that percent hp and actual hp is about the same for this engine. MAP manifold pressure is actually sensed using a vacuum sensor connected to a port on the intake spider. RPM is sensed using a proximity probe that senses the magneto gear teeth. The EGT temps on this engine varies from cylinder to cylinder and I believe that this is primarily due to the fact that I could not install all four thermocouples the same distance from the exhaust port.
The cylinder head temps are monitored with thermocouples installed in the tapped hole on the bottom side of each cylinder. As previously mentioned, oil temp is monitored with a thermocouple installed in the front left oil galley port that is located on the front of the engine just to the left of the prop and is normally plugged with a brass plug.
The oil pressure is sensed with a pretty conventional electrical oil pressure sender mounted in the sensor line that goes to the oil pressure gauge. The outside air temp is monitored with a thermocouple mounted on the bottom of the right wing gap seal. Fuel flow is detected using a photoelectric fuel flow sensor mounted in the fuel line from the gascolator to the carb.
JPI 830 Engine Analyzer on C 85-12 with O200 upgrade
JPI 830 Engine Analyzer on C 85-12 with O200 upgrade
John Propst
313 Hickory Grove Ln
Elizabeth, WV 26143
cell 304 588 3690
j.e.propst@ieee.org
N3129E 2WV3
313 Hickory Grove Ln
Elizabeth, WV 26143
cell 304 588 3690
j.e.propst@ieee.org
N3129E 2WV3
Re: JPI 830 Engine Analyzer on C 85-12 with O200 upgrade
John,
Pls do not feel bad, I just got almost the exact same thing for the Sedan!
I instead went with the Electronics International UBG-16 and the FP-5 fuel system monitor.
Reason for doing this is that first no field approval was needed, both units are already approved for Aeronca's. I had looked at the JPI units for several years. Found that they had promised several Aeronca owners that "We will get our units on the approval list ASAP" and after waiting two years and nothing, gave up and went with EI. I even asked one of our Aeronca people who is sponsored by JPI to see if they could get this pushed along and he had no luck, so they lost my business.
You are installing this for the same reason I am. I am tired of "leaning by ear" and do not want to mess up a cylinder by leaning too much, as well as I want to get just a few more miles (or tenths) out of a tank of fuel, but do not want to push the limits. The FP-5 fuel system monitor will do this down to the tenth of a gallon and make me feel safer when flying the plane.
Finally I was just at the AOPA convention in PSP last month and JPI would not deal at all on their prices. Then walked over to EI's booth and they told me that they had some very nice rebates but then the gent told me to walk across the aisle to Aircraft Spruce and ask about their prices. I did and the ACS sales rep shot me a "show special" price that was $500 less for the two instruments. I then walked back to EI with my receipt and he handed me a form to fill out for an ADDITIONAL $400 in rebates! Saving $900 on the two units was a big deal for me so there really was no choice.
Cannot wait to get these hooked up and get the same data that John is working with now!
Joe A
Pls do not feel bad, I just got almost the exact same thing for the Sedan!
I instead went with the Electronics International UBG-16 and the FP-5 fuel system monitor.
Reason for doing this is that first no field approval was needed, both units are already approved for Aeronca's. I had looked at the JPI units for several years. Found that they had promised several Aeronca owners that "We will get our units on the approval list ASAP" and after waiting two years and nothing, gave up and went with EI. I even asked one of our Aeronca people who is sponsored by JPI to see if they could get this pushed along and he had no luck, so they lost my business.
You are installing this for the same reason I am. I am tired of "leaning by ear" and do not want to mess up a cylinder by leaning too much, as well as I want to get just a few more miles (or tenths) out of a tank of fuel, but do not want to push the limits. The FP-5 fuel system monitor will do this down to the tenth of a gallon and make me feel safer when flying the plane.
Finally I was just at the AOPA convention in PSP last month and JPI would not deal at all on their prices. Then walked over to EI's booth and they told me that they had some very nice rebates but then the gent told me to walk across the aisle to Aircraft Spruce and ask about their prices. I did and the ACS sales rep shot me a "show special" price that was $500 less for the two instruments. I then walked back to EI with my receipt and he handed me a form to fill out for an ADDITIONAL $400 in rebates! Saving $900 on the two units was a big deal for me so there really was no choice.
Cannot wait to get these hooked up and get the same data that John is working with now!
Joe A
Re: JPI 830 Engine Analyzer on C 85-12 with O200 upgrade
Joe, I had some of the same experiences. I had been looking for the unit for some time and found that the everyday low price varied quite a bit from vendor to vendor. I also found over time that JPI usually offers their best rebates only for the week of Oshkosh.
When I got to Oshkosh last summer, I went from vendor to vendor negotiating who would match the lowest price that I had obtained prior to the show. I was surprised to find that ACS would not match the lowest price, but Gulf Coast Avionics not only matched but actually beat the price by a little. Like you, the rebate and savings paid for my trip to Oshkosh.
Concerning the field approval, JPI has most of the Champs with original electrical systems on their approved list, but since the original Champ did not have an electrical system, they somehow did not get the 7AC put on the JPI list. The field approval was a rather simple one in that the only deviation from the STC was that the 7AC was not listed on the approved aircraft list.
Concerning my comment about the deviation in oil temp between the panel gauge and the analyzer, this morning I collected some actual data. The outside air temp was 39 degrees, the stabilized oil temp on the panel gauge was 160 degrees while the front oil galley oil temp on the analyzer was 182 degrees (this is with the center air intake under the prop covered).
There is one item that I’d like comments on related to manifold pressure, which is a new data point for me when flying the Champ. In a previous airplane that I had with an adjustable pitch prop, I would usually set the cruise prop rpm to approximately match the manifold pressure with the understanding that I was adjusting for optimum efficiency.
With my Champ on takeoff the fuel flow is typically over 7 gph, the RPM is about 2500, and the manifold pressure is somewhere around 28 inches. After leveling out, I typically set the RPM for about 2400, I lean the engine and the fuel flow is typically about 5.1 gph. At this point I notice that the manifold pressure has typically dropped to slightly less than the RPM.
My question for those more knowledgeable than me with airplane operation is: Is the fact that the manifold pressure is less than the RPM some type of indication that I am operating at an efficient point with respect to my engine and propeller? For what it’s worth, the analyzer typically indicates that I am operating at about 85% hp at this setup.
When I got to Oshkosh last summer, I went from vendor to vendor negotiating who would match the lowest price that I had obtained prior to the show. I was surprised to find that ACS would not match the lowest price, but Gulf Coast Avionics not only matched but actually beat the price by a little. Like you, the rebate and savings paid for my trip to Oshkosh.
Concerning the field approval, JPI has most of the Champs with original electrical systems on their approved list, but since the original Champ did not have an electrical system, they somehow did not get the 7AC put on the JPI list. The field approval was a rather simple one in that the only deviation from the STC was that the 7AC was not listed on the approved aircraft list.
Concerning my comment about the deviation in oil temp between the panel gauge and the analyzer, this morning I collected some actual data. The outside air temp was 39 degrees, the stabilized oil temp on the panel gauge was 160 degrees while the front oil galley oil temp on the analyzer was 182 degrees (this is with the center air intake under the prop covered).
There is one item that I’d like comments on related to manifold pressure, which is a new data point for me when flying the Champ. In a previous airplane that I had with an adjustable pitch prop, I would usually set the cruise prop rpm to approximately match the manifold pressure with the understanding that I was adjusting for optimum efficiency.
With my Champ on takeoff the fuel flow is typically over 7 gph, the RPM is about 2500, and the manifold pressure is somewhere around 28 inches. After leveling out, I typically set the RPM for about 2400, I lean the engine and the fuel flow is typically about 5.1 gph. At this point I notice that the manifold pressure has typically dropped to slightly less than the RPM.
My question for those more knowledgeable than me with airplane operation is: Is the fact that the manifold pressure is less than the RPM some type of indication that I am operating at an efficient point with respect to my engine and propeller? For what it’s worth, the analyzer typically indicates that I am operating at about 85% hp at this setup.
John Propst
313 Hickory Grove Ln
Elizabeth, WV 26143
cell 304 588 3690
j.e.propst@ieee.org
N3129E 2WV3
313 Hickory Grove Ln
Elizabeth, WV 26143
cell 304 588 3690
j.e.propst@ieee.org
N3129E 2WV3
Re: JPI 830 Engine Analyzer on C 85-12 with O200 upgrade
John,jepropst wrote:Joe, I had some of the same experiences. I had been looking for the unit for some time and found that the everyday low price varied quite a bit from vendor to vendor. I also found over time that JPI usually offers their best rebates only for the week of Oshkosh.
Concerning the field approval, JPI has most of the Champs with original electrical systems on their approved list, but since the original Champ did not have an electrical system, they somehow did not get the 7AC put on the JPI list. The field approval was a rather simple one in that the only deviation from the STC was that the 7AC was not listed on the approved aircraft list.
My (our really) heartburn is that a very good friend of mine bought the units you did on the promise of JPI that they would get the 15AC on the approved list. Two years later when his restoration was coming to an end and it was time to do the needed paperwork, JPI would not even answer his email's so he was stuck out in the cold. I contacted a very good friend of mine who is sponsored by JPI and even he could not get them to get off of their rear end's and do anything about getting the 15AC on the approved list.
In the end my friend doing the restoration did a field approval that was not easy as none of the 15 series has ever had this approved so it had to be done from scratch, which cost even more money. JPI could have cared less and I have to say that after doing a lot of research for him found many less than satisfied customers out there with their service.
On the other hand I also found that Electronics International had bent over backwards to help customers, so that and the excellent price and rebates made the decision easy on my end. Best of luck with yours and hope that you never need the use of JPI's customer service!
Joe A